i understand all your points.  but in short oh my god...kaat knong korm usually know the light is brighter outside....

about corruption, oh my god,  ksaron (no offense to you Ksaron) can't even run a small scholarship contest fairly...and he's suggesting this topic...speaking about the needs to uncorrupt onself before trying to uncorrupt others...

am sorry for being brief...am trying not to be corruptive by stealing company time to KW.

 

 

Thanks for this info.. this org I would freely donate my money to.  I was all for supporting Bunting but the more I heard about him,, let just say my opinion has changed.

 

khemara15 wrote:  Speaking for myself, I have supported and will continue to support theCambodian National Volleyball League (Disabled) http://www.standupcambodia.net/  The life stories of these players are heroic stories of struggle against all odds which have inspired so many Khmers,  physically handicapped or not.

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www.heifer.org

babydollish wrote: Thanks for this info.. this org I would freely donate my money to. Thanks for this info.. this org I would freely donate my money to.  I was all for supporting Bunting but the more I heard about him,, let just say my opinion has changed.

 

As pointed out by several posters, maybe I did not make sufficient allowance for the possibility that Mr. Bunting is not very well-educated. In fact, thanks to a sponsorship by Royal ANZ Bank, Mr. Bunting was able to attend college in Phnom Penh. I mostly concentrated on one thing: he reminded me of a few Cambodian male singers (e.g. Preap Sovath) who are intoxicated by their success in Cambodia or in the overseas Khmer communities.

pukeko wrote: about corruption, oh my god,  ksaron (no offense to you Ksaron) can't even run a small scholarship contest fairly...and he's suggesting this topic...speaking about the needs to uncorrupt onself before trying to uncorrupt others...

Neak Neang Pukeko,

I hope KSaron will reply to your post since he is the one who started this thread

http://www.khmerwitica.com/forum/posts/page_last/id_3083/title_top-down-or-bottom-up/

Me? I cannot help wondering how the KSaron-financed and suboptimally judged (in the eyes of some kcers) KC writing contest involved corruption and how KSaron ‘s persona and offline activities had anything to do with what he writes on-line and would invite such a personal remark.

If KSaron arranged for one person to win in an attempt to get into the winner’s pants, that’s definitely corruption. As far as I know, that was not the case.This idea defies logic, anyway. There are much easier and cheaper ways to get laid, if the idea crossed his mind. If, on the other hand, the contest's winners were perceived as undeserving by most people because it was not well-organized, that's lack of organizational skills or, at worst, incompetence, not corruption.

Even if there was corruption, well, per my last post in

http://www.khmerwitica.com/forum/posts/page_last/id_3083/title_top-down-or-bottom-up/

Like prostitution, corruption involves two parties: a briber and a  "bribee", a payer and a payee, i.e. a mutually beneficial transaction.

pukeko wrote: i understand all your points.  but in short oh my god...kaat knong korm usually know the light is brighter outside.... about corruption, oh my god,  ksaron (no offense to you Ksaron) can't even run a small scholarship contest fairly...and he's suggesting this topic...speaking about the needs to uncorrupt onself before trying to uncorrupt others... am sorry for being brief...am trying not to be corruptive by stealing company time to KW.

Pukeko,

You sound like you went or go to the same school as soap.

As for the above statement, I will not waste my time with you unless you agree to debate with me on the subject of KC essay contest.  If you are unwilling to debate then you and I will have nothing to gain.  Hit and run is a sign of coward which I hope you are not one.

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assumption is the mother of all fuck ups

Wednesday, August 27, 2008

Cambodian athletes return back home at the end of the Beijing Olympics

http://ki-media.blogspot.com/2008/08/cambodian-athletes-return-back-home-at.html

The royal family donated $600 to each athlete.

 

Looks like each athlete got another $600 on top of his/her original $600 allowance.

sorry for the late reply.  am off site this week and not online during company time.

re: in bold.  speak for yourself...how is Bunting ‘s persona in the press has anything to do with who he is in person that would invite such a personal  remark from your part (going back to your first post).

pukeko wrote: about corruption, oh my god,  ksaron (no offense to you Ksaron) can't even run a small scholarship contest fairly...and he's suggesting this topic...speaking about the needs to uncorrupt onself before trying to uncorrupt others...

Neak Neang Pukeko,

I hope KSaron will reply to your post since he is the one who started this thread

http://www.khmerwitica.com/forum/posts/page_last/id_3083/title_top-down-or-bottom-up/

Me? I cannot help wondering how the KSaron-financed and suboptimally judged (in the eyes of some kcers) KC writing contest involved corruption and how KSaron ‘s persona and offline activities had anything to do with what he writes on-line and would invite such a personal remark.

If KSaron arranged for one person to win in an attempt to get into the winner’s pants, that’s definitely corruption. As far as I know, that was not the case.This idea defies logic, anyway. There are much easier and cheaper ways to get laid, if the idea crossed his mind. If, on the other hand, the contest's winners were perceived as undeserving by most people because it was not well-organized, that's lack of organizational skills or, at worst, incompetence, not corruption.

Even if there was corruption, well, per my last post in

http://www.khmerwitica.com/forum/posts/page_last/id_3083/title_top-down-or-bottom-up/

Like prostitution, corruption involves two parties: a briber and a  "bribee", a payer and a payee, i.e. a mutually beneficial transaction.

[/quote]

pukeko wrote: re: in bold.  speak for yourself...how is Bunting ‘s persona in the press has anything to do with who he is in person that would invite such a personal  remark from your part (going back to your first post).

In the same way politicians’ personalities (e.g. HRC’s or Siv Sichan's) came through in the media, part of Mr. Bunting’s personality came through in his interview with BBC World, IMO.

In the past, I have also commented on Obama’s conceit when he was increasingly cocky during his temporarily long string of victories in caucuses and primaries. 

Since you referred to my first post, this is what I wrote.

k15 wrote: "This is a wonderful thing that I can do for my country," he smiles. "Nobody else can do it - only me." Hem Bunting.  BBC World kept on showing these words over and over again yesterday.  I only wish Mr. Bunting came across as more humble.  Unfortunately, Mr. Bunting came across as conceited.

In this thread, KSaron wrote

KSaron wrote: It is too bad that Atheletes are treated as 2nd class citizen.  I would like to know where can I send him some money so he can get a good running shoes?  Where is he at, I can get the money delivered to him before the Olympic

Mystic and KSaron financed the kc writing contest several years ago.

In what way have KSaron’s above comment in this thread and his involvement in an activity in a different site quite a few years ago anything to do with your following comment?

 

pukeko wrote: about corruption, oh my god,  ksaron (no offense to you Ksaron) can't even run a small scholarship contest fairly...and he's suggesting this topic...speaking about the needs to uncorrupt onself before trying to uncorrupt others...

I mused over your personal remarks about KSaron, another forum member. What has this your "speak for yourself" reply got to do with my earlier comment about a public figure? have I ever name-called another forum member?

Many of the people I have written about in my Cambodia columns, e.g. "the Changing Cambodia" are actually my relatives and "friends". My kinship with them does not change the way I feel about them.

By the same token, KSaron and I admire Obama. Have we ever name-called people who have criticized or even name-called him?

For a few months, KSaron and I were scathing and often relentless in our criticism of HRC and her campaigning during the primaries. The great majority of HRC's supporters here have not made personal remarks about us. We have never made any personal remarks about the HRC supporters and others who were equally scathing and relentless in their criticism of Obama.

Why can't we agree to disagree and not make it personal?

even though they didn't win, they are all winners.

 

khemara15 wrote: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 Cambodian athletes return back home at the end of the Beijing Olympics http://ki-media.blogspot.com/2008/08/cambodian-athletes-return-back-home-at.html The royal family donated $600 to each athlete.   Looks like each athlete got another $600 on top of his/her original $600 allowance.

what is HRC?

khemara15 wrote: pukeko wrote: re: in bold.  speak for yourself...how is Bunting ‘s persona in the press has anything to do with who he is in person that would invite such a personal  remark from your part (going back to your first post). In the same way politicians’ personalities (e.g. HRC’s or Siv Sichan's) came through in the media, part of Mr. Bunting’s personality came through in his interview with BBC World, IMO. In the past, I have also commented on Obama’s conceit when he was increasingly cocky during his temporarily long string of victories in caucuses and primaries.  Since you referred to my first post, this is what I wrote. k15 wrote: "This is a wonderful thing that I can do for my country," he smiles. "Nobody else can do it - only me." Hem Bunting.  BBC World kept on showing these words over and over again yesterday.  I only wish Mr. Bunting came across as more humble.  Unfortunately, Mr. Bunting came across as conceited. In this thread, KSaron wrote KSaron wrote: It is too bad that Atheletes are treated as 2nd class citizen.  I would like to know where can I send him some money so he can get a good running shoes?  Where is he at, I can get the money delivered to him before the Olympic Mystic and KSaron financed the kc writing contest several years ago. In what way have KSaron’s above comment in this thread and his involvement in an activity in a different site quite a few years ago have anything to do with your following comment?   pukeko wrote: about corruption, oh my god,  ksaron (no offense to you Ksaron) can't even run a small scholarship contest fairly...and he's suggesting this topic...speaking about the needs to uncorrupt onself before trying to uncorrupt others... I mused over your personal remarks about KSaron, another forum member. What has this your "speak for yourself" reply got to do with my earlier comment about a public figure? have I ever name-called another forum member? Many of the people I have written about in my Cambodia columns, e.g. "the Changing Cambodia" are actually my relatives and "friends". My kinship with them does not change the way I feel about them. By the same token, KSaron and I admire Obama. Have we ever name-called people who have criticized or even name-called him? For a few months, KSaron and I were scathing and often relentless in our criticism of HRC and her campaigning during the primaries. The great majority of HRC's supporters here have not made personal remarks about us. We have never made any personal remarks about the HRC supporters and others who were equally scathing and relentless in their criticism of Obama. Why can't we agree to disagree and not make it personal?

pukeko wrote: what is HRC?

HRC = Hillary Rodham Clinton

ok...i haven't read your comments for a while. now that i am reading them again, i find that all you do is criticize, criticize, criticize, criticize...oh my god...i still have respect and love for you though.

Bunting is a public figure?  Is he?...

khemara15 wrote: pukeko wrote: re: in bold.  speak for yourself...how is Bunting ‘s persona in the press has anything to do with who he is in person that would invite such a personal  remark from your part (going back to your first post). In the same way politicians’ personalities (e.g. HRC’s or Siv Sichan's) came through in the media, part of Mr. Bunting’s personality came through in his interview with BBC World, IMO. In the past, I have also commented on Obama’s conceit when he was increasingly cocky during his temporarily long string of victories in caucuses and primaries.  Since you referred to my first post, this is what I wrote. k15 wrote: "This is a wonderful thing that I can do for my country," he smiles. "Nobody else can do it - only me." Hem Bunting.  BBC World kept on showing these words over and over again yesterday.  I only wish Mr. Bunting came across as more humble.  Unfortunately, Mr. Bunting came across as conceited. In this thread, KSaron wrote KSaron wrote: It is too bad that Atheletes are treated as 2nd class citizen.  I would like to know where can I send him some money so he can get a good running shoes?  Where is he at, I can get the money delivered to him before the Olympic Mystic and KSaron financed the kc writing contest several years ago. In what way have KSaron’s above comment in this thread and his involvement in an activity in a different site quite a few years ago anything to do with your following comment?   pukeko wrote: about corruption, oh my god,  ksaron (no offense to you Ksaron) can't even run a small scholarship contest fairly...and he's suggesting this topic...speaking about the needs to uncorrupt onself before trying to uncorrupt others... I mused over your personal remarks about KSaron, another forum member. What has this your "speak for yourself" reply got to do with my earlier comment about a public figure? have I ever name-called another forum member? Many of the people I have written about in my Cambodia columns, e.g. "the Changing Cambodia" are actually my relatives and "friends". My kinship with them does not change the way I feel about them. By the same token, KSaron and I admire Obama. Have we ever name-called people who have criticized or even name-called him? For a few months, KSaron and I were scathing and often relentless in our criticism of HRC and her campaigning during the primaries. The great majority of HRC's supporters here have not made personal remarks about us. We have never made any personal remarks about the HRC supporters and others who were equally scathing and relentless in their criticism of Obama. Why can't we agree to disagree and not make it personal?

pukeko wrote: Bunting is a public figure?  Is he?...

IMO, anybody whose interview with BBC World is repeated every hour for two days is a public figure

pukeko wrote: i find that all you do is criticize, criticize, criticize, criticize...oh my god... i still have respect and love for you though

It's not 100% true. You must have missed my praise for the ICST, KW, the rebels, Soch, Reksmay, the SinSisamuth project, Mam Somaly, John Wood, the Cambodian Children's Fund, etc and the CNVD in this very thread.

Even if your comment was 100% valid, all you have to do is ignore what I write.

Thank you for your respect/”love”. I guess there may still be a little bit left since you have not called me KSaron's twin or any name yet. LOL

I was really shocked by what you wrote about KSaron. It is atypical of you.

pukeko wrote: about corruption, oh my god,  ksaron (no offense to you Ksaron) can't even run a small scholarship contest fairly...and he's suggesting this topic...speaking about the needs to uncorrupt onself before trying to uncorrupt others...

Do you not think he and other people deserve an explanation as to why you think he was corrupt when he partly financed and organized the kc writing contest or why, in your opinion, given your perception of what he did or did not do, he should not have started this thread

http://www.khmerwitica.com/public/forum/posts/page_1/id_3083/title_top-down-or-bottom-up/ ?

My concern has nothing to do with KSaron. Or the kc writing contest. In this thread,

http://www.khmerwitica.com/public/forum/posts/id_728/page_1/

OKP wrote

OKP wrote: Ranariddh unashamedly cried to please his once greatest lover, Hun SenVarman, to donate a few rotten bones, so he once again can come back home to rape more innocent Khmer girls.

and I also reacted

K15 wrote: I am not a fan of Sihanouk’s, Ranariddh’s or any of the Royals either. My posts about Ranariddh in kc over 5 years provide ample evidence of this. However, as much as possible, we should try to be fair and write things which are factual or very probable. I am not a fan of the CPP’s but everything I have written about them is factual or probable. It it’s my opinion, I state it as an opinion but also provide the rationale. I am saying that it is most implausible that Ranariddh would rape anyone or would have sex with anyone below the age of 18.

In fact, I would have also responded, had OKP written his comment about Hun Sen. As far as I know, Hun Sen is a not a rapist of Khmer girls. And everybody knows what I think of Hun Sen but fair is fair.

interesting that you think someone who can't barely afford a running shoe a public figure.  oh my god...you said he's conceited, egoist, a kaat knong kaarm (frog in a k'aaorm yeah?), his talent mediocre. these comments trouble me.  i see him so as the other khmer olympians as brothers and sisters.

i initiated this post because i thought this was something 'happy' people would want to read about, especially given all the bad things happening like the Preah Vihear Temple thing, in srok khmer.  i did not anticipated such criticisms on the players character, especially from you. 

true that you do not criticize those people in here.  perhaps because they are in here to defense themselves???   you do a lot of criticizing of the people who are not in here. ways too much that i think the only things that you achieve from doing it is leading people/readers to question who you are who criticizes others. it seems like you're bitching, riskun, niyeay derm about people. why do you do  that?  do you think you're better than them.  do you think you can do the stuff that you criticized they do better? 

true i can opt not to read them, but as i told you, i do have respect and love for you.  though, i think it's not a fair response. 

i apologize for attacking people on a personal level.  i know other kw members do not do it.  i know i do it.  my charcter is not perfect. they are perfect. 

i will talk with ksaron later.  

 

 [quote="khemara15"]

 

pukeko wrote: i know other kw members do not do it.  i know i do it.  my charcter is not perfect. they are perfect.

Neak neang Pukeko,

I have never used the words “perfect” or “perfection” or believed that anyone was perfect.

No one inside or outside KW is perfect, not them, not KSaron, not me, as you rightly pointed out.

If I may say so, the self-flagellating “my charcter is not perfect. they are perfect. “ points to sarcasm that makes the “ i apologize for attacking people on a personal level.  i know other kw members do not do it.  i know i do it. “ appear disingenuous. 

In this thread, you have made unsubstantiated  personal remarks about KSaron, not about other people.

My reference to the vigorous “debate” between the HRC and Obama supporters during the primaries is not designed to paint them as perfect but as an example of how people can agree to disagree very, very strongly without resorting to personal attacks.

 

pukeko wrote: true that you do not criticize those people in here.  perhaps because they are in here to defense themselves???   you do a lot of criticizing of the people who are not in here.

Your statement is not valid.

In criticizing what some people outside of kc or KW have done (as opposed to criticizing them for the sake of criticizing, there IS a DIFFERENCE) ,what have my criticisms been about?

If I knew, for a fact, that a Kwer or kcer was a gang rapist, corrupt, an exploiter of poor people, I would say so to his face. As far as I know, there is no such person in kc in the past or in KW right now.

As a matter of fact, I have “criticized” people in here and in kc. Recently, I have commented on the controversial naming of the wells in a blog started by KSaron. In the aftermath of the kc writing contest, I have commented on the process. Also, on quite a few occasions in kc and KW, I have deplored the name-calling and the personalization of some posts.

In fact, I am doing it right now with regard to your personal remarks about KSaron and I still cannot see how my critical posts in kc or kw have anything to do with  the subject of your post about KSaron.

Yes, over the years, I have criticized people who are public figures. My posts are a matter of public record. I know, for a fact,  that some of my posts have been brought to the attention of certain people whom I have written about. Unlike the Chinese, e.g. during Beijing 2008, , they have not employed bloggers to post counter-posts.

pukeko wrote: ways too much that i think the only things that you achieve from doing it is leading people/readers to question who the heck is this dude who criticizes others. who does he think he is?.  it seems like you're bitching, riskun, niyeay derm about people. why do you do  that?  do you think you're better than them.

I am sure many people besides yourself feel this way. A few people may not feel exactly this way but have also expressed their views about my “pessimism”.

They and you are entitled to your opinion. Others have learned to tolerate me, warts and all in the same way they and I have learned to "love" KSaron, flamboyance, warts and all. LOL.

You wrote

pukeko wrote: true i can opt not to read them, but as i told you, i do have respect and love for you.

I must be like Sui_generis’aunt in

http://www.khmerwitica.com/blog/view/id_937/title_my-aunt/

Sui_generis finds her most irritating but, deep down, she loves her aunt, warts and all (I think). LOL

Actually, Sui_generis did not choose to have such an aunt but she and you can choose whose posts you read.

pukeko wrote: why do you do  that?

why do so many people criticize the corrupt people in Cambodia? Why do so many people deplore the moral decay there? Journalists do it for a living. Foreign observers e.g. Dr Ghai do it because it’s their jobs. Many of us do it because we want to get it off our chests.

IMO, selfishly, we don't know how many readers or listeners we irritate or even upset in the process but we hope that those who are will not attack us personally, tell us to shut up or shout us down. We hope that people who disagree, however strongly, will debate with us in a rational and nonpersonal manner.

 

pukeko wrote: do you think you're better than them.  do you think you can do the stuff that you criticized they do better?

Do I think that I am better than the corrupt politicians who have sold Cambodia to the Vietnamese and other foreigners and who are responsible for keeping millions of Cambodians in abject poverty? Yes, definitely. I would have never done what they have done and I believe that many Kwers feel the same way.

Do I think that I am better than Mr. Bunting? No, not at all.  I only wish he did not say “no one else can do it. Only me”. My comments about the Ah Kwak and kaat knong kaarm syndromes were about many Cambodians both inside and outside Cambodia.

In Mr, Bunting’s shoes,  I would have said something like “ It is an honor and a privilege for me to represent my country and I will do my very best, despite the odds”. Although it has become a cliché, I mean every word of it.

If my comments jarred with your “feel good’” thread, then I apologize. I will make sure it does not happen again.

If you don’t mind, could you please leave me out of it now because I think you owe KSaron an explanation?

Thank you.

pukeko wrote: i will talk with ksaron later.