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Getting Rich First?
Posted On 01/16/2008 18:19:46 by Cambodia

In my first few columns, I deplored the fact that, in Cambodia, many people are driven by greed and that people have become more and more money-minded. This seems to have accelerated in the last few years as land speculation was becoming widespread.

I never asked question (1) : is this necessarily a bad thing?

I also deplored the fact that most people are Buddhists in name only. Likewise, I never asked question (2) : what is the big deal about Buddhism, anyway?

I recently read Duncan Hewitt’s book "Getting rich first: life in a changing China" and noted the similarities between what has happened in China since Deng Xiaoping’s first said that “it’s glorious to be rich” in 1978 and what has happened in Cambodia since 1993. In both countries, “ while some (Duncan Hewitt wrote ‘many’ in the case of China) have benefited under the new aspiration nation, many (my choice of words) others are struggling to keep up with what is now one of the most divided societies on earth”.

Notwithstanding the increasing inequality between the haves and the have-nots, Deng Xiaoping’s additional rationalization that the country would have to “let some of the people get rich first” could also be used to foster the hope that, in Cambodia, once rich, many Cambodians would turn to philanthropy and religion, i.e. real faith-based religion.

We observed this phenomenon in many nouveau-rich societies, e.g. in Singapore where many middle-class young professionals combine material and professional success with strong and genuine Christian beliefs. Likewise, in Cambodia, many nouveau rich people also donate generously to Buddhist temples during Kathin festivals.

Some people may argue that Buddhism is really only a philosophy of life and, unlike Christianity, is not a faith-based religion. Therefore, a change in attitude toward the world and life would only be possible if people were to see the Light and convert to Christianity. This is what happened to Kang Khek Ieu (alias Deuch), the head of S-21 or Tuol Sleng.

More and more Cambodians are converting to Christianity and, while some are doing it for partly or mostly mercenary reasons, some are doing it because they have truly embraced Christian faith and values. Unlike Buddhism which, inherently, preaches renunciation, Protestantism, in particular, makes the practice of one’s faith and wealth accumulation compatible and possibly synergistic.

Given the two columns immediately preceding this one, is it any wonder that some Cambodians have become skeptical with such pessimistic concepts as karma and converted to a more optimistic religion, e.g. Christianity?

Potentially life-changing projects like the CIST
http://www.myp1t.com/forum/posts/id_1033/
are a drop in the ocean, compared with the evangelical potential of well-heeled missionaries from many Western and Asian (e.g. South-Korean) churches.

Instead of passing implicit value judgments in my first few columns, should I have been asking questions (1) and (2) instead?

This column has taken some time to write, not only because of the festive season and my workload but also because I have been unable to come up with non-clichéd ideas on how the Cambodians’ current obsession with money could be curbed or possibly reversed.

This is the reason why I am posing two soul-searching and controversial questions (1) and (2). I look forward to reading your comments. Thank you.


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From: KSaron
01/22/2008 00:34:28

Invite Sok An to watch the parade..now that is an idea.


Can the committee please talk to the San about this project?



From: ladyM
01/22/2008 00:03:38

Hi All,

 

Gnome, thank you for your response; it was very helpful.

 

Let me take this opportunity to clarify my points.

 

I know that most of us are here because we love Cambodia and the Cambodian people.

 

I would like to plead with those who choose to submit their reply to consider the following:


1)      The fact that the article and replies are available to the public – which include future generation of Cambodian – I would like us to consider what the ultimate message we want to relay to the public.

 

That Cambodia is the most corrupted and Cambodians are the most money-minded group of people in the world?

 

I know that this is not our ultimate intention; that is why I pose those questions.  I want to challenge the writers to be specific/provide statistics as their base and not generalize Cambodia or the Cambodian people.

 

2)      Intellectual discussion is great.  I think there are some great minds on this site.

 

So we must also remember that bad/negative news sell; not the positive one.  It is our responsibility to dig into what is said.  Cambodia is one of the most corrupted countries in the world; is that the same as ALL Cambodian are corrupted or the government is?  Per gnome, all the statistics point to the government and their cronies…let’s call that out.

 

Some of you may have been back to Cambodia and worked there; and have first-hand knowledge of what it was like to be there. The daily frustration you faced when you try to take small steps toward changes.  Looking back, if there were more people who thought like you or would support you in your cause; would it have made a small difference?

 

I know that there are still these people/organization out there in Cambodia today who are fighting to make the difference…a few have been mentioned on this site:  CIST, CCF, Theary, Virak Ou, Mam Somaly…etc.

 

I recommend that we keep these people/projects in mind when we talk about Cambodia today.  Even if they are a drop in the ocean today doesn’t mean that we/they should give up.  Who knows what can happen tomorrow if there is enough support – meteorite size drop? Tsunami?

 

Do we want to encourage the public or future generation to follow these great people or they are all lost cause?  If these are lost cause, then is there an ultimate work-able cause that we should all support?

 

If we are to support these people; we need to stay consistent and not lump them with the corrupted elite when we write…

 

3)      …And gnome, I never did say that “being Buddhist is being Cambodian”.  I said Buddhism identify us as khmer.  If you meet someone and told them that you are Khmer and if the person you are speaking to is religiously-inclined, they would ask you if you are a Buddhist.  As a matter of fact, I said that it is the lost of values that should be discussed not a person association to religion – predominately by the same set of group previously mentioned, not all the Cambodian people.

 

However, I do admit that I am naïve…Hey, at least I am not naïve enough to invite Sok An to parade him around in Cambodian Town during Khmer New Year….  However, I might be naïve enough to invite him to be a spectator to the parade to see how happy and prosperous people can be if given the freedom and opportunity…oops, that’s the subject under another thread…


 


-M-



From: khemara15
01/21/2008 05:07:36

SteungSongkae,

Like Lady M, you asked such difficult questions that I need time to think of the answers. LOL
I will reply. I promise. Please give me your opinion first. Thank you.


From: steungsongkae
01/20/2008 20:32:27

Thank Khem,

I sensed that you perhaps just ask  hypothetical questions. However with statement earlier like:

 "...compared with the evangelical potential of well-heeled missionaries from many Western and Asian (e.g. South-Korean) churches."

I started to doubt if you were also contemplating or considering and thus endorsing the conversion by some Khmer who 'seek alternative' to their spiritual need.

 

Which lead us to another question, is religion a solution or burden to social ill?


 



From: khemara15
01/20/2008 19:40:56

Hi SteungSongkae,

I am sorry. I could not grasp your last sentence.

What I was trying to say is simply this.

Having survived the Pol Pot period, then endured the Vietnamese occupation, many Cambodians welcomed peace and the promise of UNTAC as beacons of hope. Then, they saw how, contrary to their Buddhist beliefs, “Tveu Loor Ban Loor, Tveu Ah Krok Ban Ah Krok’ did not seem to work and some people also questioned other Buddhist concepts like karma and converted to Christianity, even if there was no tangible benefit (e.g. English tuition or job opportunity) to entice them.


From: steungsongkae
01/20/2008 19:12:21

 

"Given the two columns immediately preceding this one, is
it any wonder that some Cambodians have become skeptical with such
pessimistic concepts as karma and converted to a more optimistic
religion, e.g. Christianity? "

 

I am not quite sure of what is the intention of the author when saying about. Please clarify. 

 

Is the author suggesting that the social wealth, in every sense of  or personal  and spiritual achievement attached to religion of a country in which it serves?



From: khemara15
01/20/2008 18:08:46

Thank you, Sati.
I am providing the links to the Business Week's articles below.
China's Spiritual Awakening
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_03/b4067050290718.htm
In China, Dharma Confronts the Dollar
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/aug2007/gb20070815_732456.htm


From: khemara15
01/20/2008 16:39:51

Gnome, thank you very much for responding to Lady M’s questions.

I am grateful because I find it very difficult to put my head around the questions she asked.

It’s extremely difficult to generalize about businesses in Cambodia.

I know of one huge business owned by a locally-born Chinese who offers salaries and working conditions (e.g. day offs) unheard of in the industry. He is a Killing Fields survivor, does not have a lot of formal education but is a genuinely nice person. His business has thrived and he is extremely successful. Yet, none of his competitors has copied the way he treats his employees.

I also know of several businesses started, owned and operated by overseas Khmers (former Killing Fields survivors) whose employees are not treated any better than in businesses owned by local Khmers. The extremely low salaries and working conditions are no better because they tell me “ when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Why spoil these people? They would only take advantage of you”.

By and large, most local employers (born in, returning to Cambodia or foreigners alike) or treat their employees shabbily. Payroll is a very small percentage of a business’ operating costs in Cambodia and enables owners to make substantial profits. To increase employee salaries and wages does not eat significantly into profits but it is almost as if investors and employers in Cambodia are out to make as much money as quickly as possible.


From: impact
01/20/2008 06:15:46
I agree with pka..


From: gnome
01/20/2008 00:08:08

ladym,

thank you for responding, i appreciate it. to tell you the truth, i don't consider myself a cambodian history buff. i can't say i know anymore about it than anyone else here, however i do take an interest in economics in general and at the same time, once in a while, i read on what's developing in cambodia.

to answer your questions, cambodia's corruption rating hasn't really changed much all these years. according to transparency international corruption perception index of 2006 and 2007 cambodia has gotten worst from a 2.1/10 to 2.0/10 score. cambodia ranked 162/180 (1 being the least corrupted), not much has changed these past decades.

again, this may be redundant info for some. in from 1993 to 2002 foreign direct investment has dropped from $200 million to $50 million dollars because the government was too corrupted. in 2006 the world bank froze payments of millions of dollars because it was being taken by government scheme. for many years, foreign donors threaten left and right to freeze payments if the cambodian government don't curb corruption. and year after year, the government made empty promises.

corruption hampers growth and competitiveness. foreigners are less likely to want to invest in your country if there is no law and order. power has been too centralized in the executive branch. cpp controls the legislature and the judicial branch almost completely. the investment freedom in cambodia is extremely limited. certain industry is prohibited thus allowing the cpp cronies to have absolute monopoly on them.

according to adam smith the wealth of nation, a nation is only wealthy if it's citizens are wealthy. unfortunately, not only do cambodians have no investment and financial freedom (or is extremely limited) cambodia's legal system does not protect private property of ordinary citizens - as a result, many cambodians lost their properties to corrupted officials. the lack of labor unions (or should i say lack of labor rights) and inflexible of employment regulations impede job creations and productivity growth.

we should not generalize all of cambodian businesses as uncaring and unsympathetic to the poor, however i would like to emphasize that most businesses in cambodia are not really khmers. for example, the majority of the garment factory owners are not khmer owners, they are china, maylaysia, taiwan, korea, hong kong, etc only 1/6 of it is actually owned by cambodians. keep in mind that most hotels and shops are foreigners (besides that ones that's already owned by cambodian elites like sok kong, sok an, hun sen, etcc). and not to mention the growing population of vietnamese business owners in cambodia. the question is, are they really there to genuinely help cambodians, or are they there just to make money? i'm leaning more towards the later.

---

religion - buddhism

being khmer is being buddhist? as much as buddhism is integrated in khmer culture i don't think it's that symbolic. i think it's a little naive to think khmer values align w/ the religion (i can't think of any examples right now).



From: khemara15
01/19/2008 16:36:02

Thank you for your drawing this article to our attention, Sati.

In Cambodia, some journalists have also pointed to the crowds in temples during Bonns as a sign of spiritual revival. Little do they know that most young Cambodians go to temples to look for potential life partners and flirt and not to be spiritually energized.


From: Sati
01/19/2008 15:45:02

Kemara15,


First of all, I would like to say that your writing efforts are very much appreciated.


It is somewhat a coincidence that my subscribed BusinessWeek dated January 21, 2008 has an article titled "China's Spiritual Awakening" on pages 051-052.  Below is the some of the excerpts (I hope I will not be in trouble by typing them here; instead, I hope BusinessWeek Online will get more traffic).


"Why a growing number of successfull urban professionals are flocking to Buddhism" by Dexter Roberts.


"Buddhism is booming - quite a paradox given the Communist Party's official atheism and its troubled relationship with the Dalai Lama.  The faith's growing popularity reflects a yearning for meaning among China's yuppies, who increasingly are attracted to Buddhism's rejection of materialism and emphasis on the transitory nature of life".


"...for stressed-out yuppies, Buddhism is a respite from the rat race."



From: ladyM
01/19/2008 12:35:35
And?…great analysis/discussion…however, after reading all the threads, I have more questions than answers.

 

gnome is so knowledgeable about Cambodia for such an earth bound creature ( gnome - a legendary creature resembling a tiny old man; lives in the depths of the earth and guards buried treasure).

 


However, I am still a little unclear…so let me first paraphrase K15 questions:


 


1)      In Cambodia, many people are driven by greed and those people have become more and more money-minded. Is this necessarily a bad thing?


 

2)      Cambodian people are Buddhists in name only.  What is the big deal about Buddhism, anyway?

First of all, are we generalizing ‘ALL’ Cambodians or are we talking about the Cambodian elite only?


  1)     I agree with everyone that a country’s wealth that is based on land speculation, stolen foreign aides and corrupted business practice cannot sustain itself indefinitely.   

However, aside from the land speculation (which is rampant throughout the globe including the US) do we have any statistics of whether the corruptions within the government and businesses are more rampant now than it was…let’s say…10 years ago?

 

Do we see any trend that foreigners sending aides to Cambodia are asking for better accountabilities of how and where the money is being spent?

 

Do we see more influx or an increase of legitimate businesses? Those ventures that create jobs; by people abroad or those morally-driven individuals in srok khmer?  They might be small in number…but the real question is should these business individual be recognized separately instead of being lumped with the rest? 

 

The rest that do include those businesses that are artificial in nature such as certain garment companies where ONLY labels were attached to a completed garment; but the entire garment is stamped as “Made in Cambodia” and the government officials and the corrupted business person reap in the profit.


 

2)     I am even less clear on the answers to the Buddhism question.
 
I believe Buddhism identify who we are as Khmer.  Is the real question here about religion or is it about upholding those values that make us Khmer – regardless of which religion belief we embrace?
 
Again, are we defining how Buddhism is being followed/not followed by these Cambodian elite?  Buddhism might not be a big deal to this small group of people; but I think Buddhism is a big deal for Cambodians.
 
Maybe I don’t know much about Buddhism, but does it say any where that wealth is bad? Or an accumulation of wealth is not compatible with Buddhism?  Is it the interpretation of ‘karma’ that is different?
 
Here is a link for those who want to learn more about Karma: http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm.  Below is an excerpt:
Thus, from a Buddhist point of view, our present mental, moral intellectual and temperamental differences are, for the most part, due to our own actions and tendencies, both past and present.
Although Buddhism attributes this variation to Karma, as being the chief cause among a variety, it does not, however, assert that everything is due to Karma. The law of Karma, important as it is, is only one of the twenty-four conditions described in Buddhist Philosophy.
Refuting the erroneous view that "whatsoever fortune or misfortune experienced is all due to some previous action", the Buddha said:
"So, then, according to this view, owing to previous action men will become murderers, thieves, unchaste, liars, slanderers, covetous, malicious and perverts. Thus, for those who fall back on the former deeds as the essential reason, there is neither the desire to do, nor effort to do, nor necessity to do this deed, or abstain from this deed."
It was this important text, which states the belief that all physical circumstances and mental attitudes spring solely from past Karma that Buddha contradicted. If the present life is totally conditioned or wholly controlled by our past actions, then certainly Karma is tantamount to fatalism or determinism or predestination. If this were true, free will would be an absurdity. Life would be purely mechanistic, not much different from a machine. Being created by an Almighty God who controls our destinies and predetermines our future, or being produced by an irresistible Karma that completely determines our fate and controls our life’s course, independent of any free action on our part, is essentially the same. The only difference lies in the two words God and Karma. One could easily be substituted for the other, because the ultimate operation of both forces would be identical.

Such a fatalistic doctrine is not the Buddhist law of Karma.


 


Well you did ask for comments…


 

-M-


From: gnome
01/18/2008 22:06:13
ksaron, gnome is tempted to go in kc and respond to soap but like the rich people of cambodia, it will be a lost cause. gnome suggest you ignore him as well.


From: khemara15
01/18/2008 20:55:13

KSaron,

I know what prompted your comment.

You may remember what I wrote in that other forum about not lowering myself to debate with Vietnamese agents provocateurs. As much as possible, I try not to
acknowledge them.

I made the mistake in that other forum of responding compassionately
to Ms. Soap’s heart-felt thread, following her grief and loss.

It is a mistake I will never make again. Some people don’t deserve a second chance.

People
who resort to personal attacks in any forum almost never change.

In the same way I plead with people to ignore the agents provocateurs in that other forum, may I please plead that former or current kcers who are in myP1t not to publicly discuss people or matters relating to one site in the other site?

If I may use an analogy, Barack Obama transferred from Occidental to Columbia as an undergrad. What is known as Obama’s undergrad alma mater? Occidental or Columbia?


From: KSaron
01/18/2008 19:44:07
Khemara, I only post that up because ms soap is jumping for joy on the findings.  I've only been to Cambodia once and I see things that I don't like no matter how many tourists there are in the country.  I guess there are goods to go with my bad perception of Cambodia.


From: Cambodia
01/18/2008 19:17:01

KSaron,

Regarding the top ten economic news from Cambodia you posted, surely, you do not expect the official Chinese news agency Tsinghua to be posting the other side of the coin, such as the observations made by French Journalist Francois Hauter, which I posted in my reply below, do you?


From: gnome
01/18/2008 17:59:11

geeze, k15, now i'm all boiled up inside now. just by reading francois hauter's commentary i am reminded of how selfish human beings can be, especially how far behind the asians race are in terms of socio-evolution. i thought to myself maybe if the rich can better educate itself and maybe take some humanity and ethic classes, maybe that would change their perspective, maybe their kids will grow up to be more empathetic, maybe there will be change, however i'm not quite sure if that's the root of it all.

even asians in america think quite differently from most americans. their values are different and they are driven by money. when it comes to choosing a profession most asians tend to pick which occupation pays the most instead of what they actually want to do.



From: Cambodia
01/18/2008 17:28:04

Thank you for your comments, everyone.

Pka and gnome,

Soch especially pointed out that many, if not most of the very rich and rich in Cambodia may be a lost cause.

The hope, however llusory, is that the emerging middle class and the people in the countryside who are joining the land speculation frenzy may not be too far gone yet.

Let’s hope that the observations made by French Journalist Francois Hauter ( see italics below) will never apply in full to Cambodia too.

You mentioned that Buddhism is Cambodia’s official religion but none of you discussed what role Christianity could play in the shaping of the psyche of Cambodians.

In case some readers may think that I have recently converted to Christianity, I have not.

I only brought up this issue as part of this intellectual discussion.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/reportage/20070803.FIG000000020_memoires_oubliees.html

As soon as he gets out of poverty, The former factory worker, treats his employees who fell at its mercy as his servants. He deprives them of dignity, even stealing their wives and them to save a few cents . He mimics his former bosses. Everything and everyone is fair game.

The most shocking is the general indifference to the suffering of others. At the hospital, a writer whom I knew had to have an eye operation. They had removed without anesthesia. On Nanjing Road, the most prestigious boulevard of Shanghai, I saw a woman fall from her motorcycle. She was seriously injured. Her leg was broken, her skull open and her teeth broken. Blood spread on the roadway. One hundred passengers were waiting for their buses, two meters in front of her. Nobody moved. One of the bystanders continued to eat her bread. Nobody had used his cell phone to call the police. The cars circumvented the body, without stopping.

I had seen it with the first Chinese billionaires. I had met several outstanding entrepreneurs who started from nothing . They talked about how hungry they were as children , showing off their billions. If they had ten billions, they wanted a hundred! Most of them lived simply, but it was sickly: no treasure would never suffice to fill the empty bellies of their childhood, When we were leaving a restaurant in Hong Kong, they all took a doggy bag - the remains of our meal – and climbed into their limousine.

We are in Europe at an age where hunger of our forefathers has been soothed long ago. When I reach other worlds, China for example, I have the feeling I am falling into the pit to the hungry. In restaurants, people really stuff themselves to the maximum, meticulously, shouting with joy. They group themselves into groups of six adults (two parents and four grandparents) to feed their "only child" to obesity. They hoard their money, yuan after yuan. It is their only obsession with their round and full bellies. All voracious and compulsive Scrooges..


From: KSaron
01/18/2008 03:47:16

dam it gnome.  what you wrote two comments below is the kind of arguement that is kicking soap in the ass.  how dare you speak of hun sen and the cpp in such a way?  do you not realized that there are 10 things that cambodia has made progresses on according to a chinese guy.  You are as crazy as myself and K15 for your comments.  You better becareful or your name will start with the letter K.


Local paper highlights Top 10 Economic News of Cambodia in 2007
chinaview.cn 2007-12-31 13:04:36 Print

By Xia Lin

PHNOM PENH, Dec. 31 (Xinhua) -- Major local Chinese-language newspaper the Commercial News here on Monday highlighted the Top 10 Economic News of Cambodia in 2007 and outlined the robust pulse of the kingdom's economic vibration


On top of the chart was the signing of the single visa agreement between Cambodia and Thailand on Dec. 17, which allowed foreign tourists from a third country to visit the two countries with a single visa and thus promoted more foreign tourists to visit both countries.

Second, Cambodia re-opened its Sihanoukville International airport on Jan. 15, after more than 20 years of hiatus, in order to perfect its air traffic network and attract more travelers to the seaport city.

Third, the kingdom started to construct its National Road No. 8on March 15, which, upon its completion, will improve the country's road network and provide more choices for its outgoing people.

Fourth, the National Assembly on Dec. 3 approved the government accounts settlement for 2005, which had 89.2 million U.S. dollars in surplus and confirmed its successful economic reform.

Fifth, the
Special Economic Zone of Sihanoukville began to be constructed in 2007 with the participation of Chinese investors. The project aimed to provide full-scale business service for export-oriented factories and companies.

Sixth, real estate prices in Phnom Penh surged drastically in 2007, as it inhabitants increased by 3.2 percent on annual basis and
foreign investment rushed in to share the country's foreseeable economic boom in the near future.

Seventh, Cambodian has become the sixth largest garment exporter in the world. The industry created job opportunities for about 0.5 million Cambodians and generated some 0.3 billion U.S. dollars of monthly payment for the employees.

Eighth, maiden direct flight between Europe and Cambodia was made on Dec. 7, which would bring more tourists to the kingdom.

Ninth, agricultural exports flourished in 2007, as palm oil, peanuts, rice, pepper and other rural products became ever more popular in the international markets.

Finally, luxury real estate project the Longqing Resort in Kandal province was demolished on July 31, as it expanded its land illegally and in effect constituted menace to the safety of the capital city.



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