posted:n1985 on 05/22/2010 07:56:18
|
Some great wisdom in there. From outer appearance, friends and acquainences assuming I am doing ok or onto something good, but the reality is I am a loser. I am broke as hell, but here I am as usual, procastinating and drinking at 4am. Maybe I should learn how to let go of my resentment (but it doesn't change the fact that they are asshole) and work on self improvement. Peace.
--------------------------------------------------------------
EVERYONE BOW DOWN AND PAY EXTREME HOMAGE TO HIS MAJESTIES: n0_0™
|
posted:esme on 05/22/2010 17:09:22
|
|
alex07 wrote:
^we live in a snobbery snobbery world folks.. it doesnt matter what race you are... and in what age group you are.. apparently it's universal
"younger" people think they are cooler than "older" people "intellectuals" disassociating themselves from the idiots "wealthy" individuals think they're too good for the "poorer" folks "attractive" people tend to hang out with other good looking people or at least moderately looking people. they rarely hang out with short stubby rejects. also i notice is that almost everyone has a similiar story to tell...some family is always looking down on some family.. i bet even the family that does the lookin down probalby felt the same way..which begs the question..maybe khmers r too sensitive and hold grudges (maybe not necessarily grudges but a certain feeling)? have some of you ever thought that maybe your family looks down on other families too (snobbery)?
im pretty sure everybody else has been through something similar, like being insulted and patrionized and belittled by their "neighbors" or just people they know in their community.. i wonder if they felt the need for redemption or proclamation like khmer people do?
|
The way I view my community does not stem from any misconception fed to me by my parents. I actually spent my childhood observing how my parents interacted with the community and how the community interacted with them. My parents spent my early childhood trying to be supportive of our Cambodian community but after many failed attempts and heartache they stopped. The stories my parents told always consisted of the happy times they had in the Refugee camps when Cambodians banned together after having survived the Khmer Rouge. Even now their best friends are those they met in the Camps.
I said earlier that my community offers very little support but there is still the odd memories I have of someone stepping up and helping my family out when we were in need. I think the main problem is that we have very little trust in eachother. A friendship can easily be broken by gossip that gets around. And who can blame us or our elders. Most of the memories people have of their neighbours are bad (the KR being a huge cause) and psychologically we are more prone to remembering the bad, something called confirmation bias. As for the snobbiness I think that stemmed from Cambodians having made it to the third world. The camaraderie that most Cambodians felt in the Camps for having all survived the hell that was the KR period was replaced with a sense of eliteism of having made it to the third world. The land of the free. Why did my parents not catch the elitest bug? Well because we were rejected many times before finally being accepted into a Country. And also because my dad would have been just as happy to go back to Cambodia if our chance never came.
|
posted:esme on 05/22/2010 17:13:27
|
|
poorrichardless wrote:
My perception of some my relatives' opinions did not come from my parents but rather direct contact. Maybe I should not have used the term "look down" because in thinking about it, it was more or less little verbal jabs or slights. Not so much "look down" but put downs. Maybe I am overly sensative and interpreting incorrectly. You may disagree with me but it seems that on average a rich Cambodian person tends to act more like an ass, more arrogant than an equally rich white American. I'm not saying all rich Cambodians act like asses but maybe 80% do versus 50% of white Americans? For all the American CEOs who act like jerks you have a lot who are well grounded. The two richest guys in America Buffet and Gates seem like pretty nice guys. How many very rich Cambodians (whether in Cambodia or overseas) can you say are well grounded and don't expect the seas to part and people to bow down as they walk the earth?
|
Actually I think rich people that don't work for their money tend to act more like an ass and more arrogant than those that sweated blood and tears to make their riches. And I think this phenomenon exists exclusive to race or nationality.
|
posted:reksmay on 05/23/2010 13:09:56
|
With reference toward Buffet and Gates, I'd like to interject my comment based on a documentary I saw several years back on the riches' children or something to do with nepotism. Sorry, a bit vague, but the negative impression I got of Buffet still remains with me. Wish I got the links here.
Buffet, I read somewhere before, gave a certain amount of his fortune to Gate as to drop his title from the number one richest to second and having Gate as #1, perhaps to align himself with the charity foundation that was founded by Gates. My opinion, it was awfully generous of him. Yet, upon seeing the documentary of his grandchild, don't remember her name, she said she received little charity from him.
She cited to say that she received help to further her education, but little else in the ways of making it out there. Other children from wealthy families were in the same pool, but a bit better off than her in terms of some kind of support. Compare to Trump's children, my opinion, he will make sure his children has the exposure. Now, why is Buffet so stingy? It is not necessary the money that is the issue, but the wealth of knowledge that is scarce---the connections, the resources, the trick to making it out there, etc. Paris Hilton sure knows how to rub elbows. If people say she is not smart, I beg to differ. She's quite intelligent in her ways and knows how to work the Paparazzis to her advantage. I don't begrudge people in keeping wealth in the family, but when one is one's own flesh and blood, to deny it, what is up? Perhaps gaining his wealth by the skin of his teeth and sweat, he expects his children and children's children to do likewise, however, through the regular institution. Schools are not meant to teach a person to be rich in life. They teach a person to conform to society. Those who made it out there don't think within the box. Keeping the knowledge from them is crippling them and that was what I witnessed with these descendants of the riches. To get back in line with the conversation at hand, I believe as human being, we tend to do things like that. It doesn't matter what race we are, if we look closely, we tend to do similar things. If we can be more conscious of our behaviors, perhaps we can control it better and do things more productively or less harmfully. My family was the last two or so cycles that made it to America. We were stationed in the Philippines to be English-readied for six months, but we stayed an extra 2 more months because we had no sponsor. We have relatives, but our relatives were good at keeping to themselves. From Thailand's border, we threw all the bahts away and took up the Philipino's piso. Then, we had to discard the pisos for the dollars. We had nothing, but the skin on our backs and what meager possessions close to us. My parents knew little English and I was too young to do them any good. They worked minimum wages doing any kind of jobs they could find and sometimes competing with the cheaper labors taken by the Hispanics. Yep. We were stationed first in Arizona and one can figure out that there were little Khmer community around. It was there that I discovered what it was that they called "racism". In my limited English, I knew that the Hispanic boy who told me to go back to my country did not mean good and I didn't take it standing there. Similarly, I experienced the same atrocity coming from an African-American girl. The world was confusing to me when I looked at their colors as something quite beautiful coming from a refugee camp that take "white" or foreign people close to godliness, to have them treated me such ways was a rude wake up call. My parents advised us children to study hard, to make it out there. I took their advice. Though they can't helped me much because they don't know themselves and most of the time, they were so busy with work and raising us kids, school was my only job and I was determined. I was determined to not let people, especially from another ethnic background who has every right to be in America as we do, look down upon me or my race. This does not excuse that my own race act similarly. But, though it is hard, I tried to learn it from my parents to tolerate people, to "achear-srai"- forgive- , especially our own race, for we are only what are left. If we can't get along with each other in the third world country, what is there left? So, though we groan and gripe at home, in public, we tried to treat each other with respect and dignity. Look only toward their positive sides and avoid their negative sides. We, my family, are not perfect as well. But, if we can concentrate on the good, we can overcome any adversities. That is the motto I hope to remember always in time of strifes. And, there are plenty. So long as we continue to live and be present in a world of community, we are responsible in the society we adopt as our own.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Is time the wheel that turns, or the track it leaves behind?
|
posted:n1985 on 05/24/2010 03:21:53
|
At time I have thought about when I am ageing and death comes calling to whether I should inherit my wealth to my children or donating it, my arrival conclusion is depend. I think and I am only guessing, Warren Buffen's motive is that he wants his children and grandchildren to acquire knowledge and skills to independently making it on their own without the thought of falling back on his massive wealth. I also see this mentality in some of the wealthy famlies, once their children reached mature age or adulthood they become less financial supportive and let the children rely on themselves.
--------------------------------------------------------------
EVERYONE BOW DOWN AND PAY EXTREME HOMAGE TO HIS MAJESTIES: n0_0™
|
posted:malaika on 05/24/2010 19:58:27
|
maybe. but the word lazy has never entered my thoughts when I remembered how hard they work and their willingness to do whatever it takes to make a living, like going through trash to pick for cans and bottles before getting jobs as donut baker.
|
poorrichardless wrote:
|
malaika wrote:
remind me of my mom in her willingness to pursue education--she was attending ESL and night school to learn English while most of my aunts and uncles had the belief that "I'm old, I can't learn anymore."
|
Do you think your aunts and uncles really believed that or was it just their excuse to be lazy?
|
|
posted:poorrichardless on 05/25/2010 07:54:48
|
|
reksmay wrote:
Yet, upon seeing the documentary of his grandchild, don't remember her name, she said she received little charity from him. She cited to say that she received help to further her education, but little else in the ways of making it out there. Other children from wealthy families were in the same pool, but a bit better off than her in terms of some kind of support. Compare to Trump's children, my opinion, he will make sure his children has the exposure. Now, why is Buffet so stingy? It is not necessary the money that is the issue, but the wealth of knowledge that is scarce---the connections, the resources, the trick to making it out there, etc.
|
Buffet's philosophy is to give his children enough that they can do anything in life, but not so much that they can do nothing. If he has helped that grandchild to get an education, then he has done his part. Would you rather he just give her lots of money so that she can sit around doing drugs all day long? If it's the granddaughter I think you're talking about, she's an ingrate who simply does not want to work for her money and expects to get it just because her grandfather is rich. That's not the value I think anyone should want to teach their children. Trump and Paris Hilton are in a totally different business than Buffet. Buffet's reputation precedes him. Trump and PH not only thrive on fame but also make a lot of their fortune from marketing themselves and their names. I'm sure if Buffet's children were interested in his business he would help mentor them too. I don't know what your documentary showed, but Warren Buffet has never been stingy with his knowledge even to the general public. So I cannot imagine that he would be stingy to his children/grandchildren. I saw in an interview that Lebron James and a lot of other people are always asking him for advice, and he is always willing to give it.
|
reksmay wrote:
Schools are not meant to teach a person to be rich in life. They teach a person to conform to society. Those who made it out there don't think within the box.
|
I disagree with your statement above on so many levels. I don't know what school you went to, but the university I attended did not teach conformity to society. If anything, universities in America are accused of being feeding grounds for liberalism and rebellion against society and social norms. And I'm pretty certain people who graduate from college make a lot more money than people who do not. You think all those rich CEOs who are being paid $50 million a year are high school dropouts? Even Buffet credits his education with a lot of his success (actually specific professors/mentors he met in school, but he's wouldn't have met them if he never attended their classes and learned their theories).
--------------------------------------------------------------
Wise governments encourage the airing of grievances; foolish governments do the opposite - to their peril.
|
posted:poorrichardless on 05/25/2010 08:00:40
|
There are different kinds of laziness. Maybe they were not lazy when it came to picking up cans out of trashbins but lazy when it comes to learning.
|
malaika wrote:
maybe. but the word lazy has never entered my thoughts when I remembered how hard they work and their willingness to do whatever it takes to make a living, like going through trash to pick for cans and bottles before getting jobs as donut baker.
|
poorrichardless wrote:
|
malaika wrote:
remind me of my mom in her willingness to pursue education--she was attending ESL and night school to learn English while most of my aunts and uncles had the belief that "I'm old, I can't learn anymore."
|
Do you think your aunts and uncles really believed that or was it just their excuse to be lazy?
|
|
--------------------------------------------------------------
Wise governments encourage the airing of grievances; foolish governments do the opposite - to their peril.
|
posted:reksmay on 05/26/2010 09:59:50
|
|
poorrichardless wrote:
Buffet's philosophy is to give his children enough that they can do anything in life, but not so much that they can do nothing. If he has helped that grandchild to get an education, then he has done his part. Would you rather he just give her lots of money so that she can sit around doing drugs all day long? If it's the granddaughter I think you're talking about, she's an ingrate who simply does not want to work for her money and expects to get it just because her grandfather is rich. That's not the value I think anyone should want to teach their children.
|
I stand corrected. That is not the value I want to teach anyone, either. I don't know the ins of anybody's family affair, but from the look of the woman, if I can remember it vaguely, she possessed a mien of hardship as characterized by her slender almost slack feature and uneven teeth when she smiled. Her chosen profession, if I can remember it correctly, was in art. If I can recall her words, she did mention Buffet paid for her tuition. But, my argument was that, due to my ignorance of the family affair and because of it my perception that Buffet denied his family of the secret knowledge to make it out there. And, that is corrected by your last paragraph that...
|
PRL wrote:
...I'm sure if Buffet's children were interested in his business he would help mentor them too. I don't know what your documentary showed, but Warren Buffet has never been stingy with his knowledge even to the general public. So I cannot imagine that he would be stingy to his children/grandchildren. I saw in an interview that Lebron James and a lot of other people are always asking him for advice, and he is always willing to give it.
|
...Perhaps the grandchild did not choose to carry the torch of his business as evident by her chosen major in college. Who knows? My perception is shallow at best and I admit. It is after all a matter of exposure of knowledge to make one be more informed and consequently form their perception of the world. I thank you for your correction.
|
PRL wrote:
I disagree with your statement above on so many levels. I don't know what school you went to, but the university I attended did not teach conformity to society. If anything, universities in America are accused of being feeding grounds for liberalism and rebellion against society and social norms. And I'm pretty certain people who graduate from college make a lot more money than people who do not. You think all those rich CEOs who are being paid $50 million a year are high school dropouts? Even Buffet credits his education with a lot of his success (actually specific professors/mentors he met in school, but he's wouldn't have met them if he never attended their classes and learned their theories).
|
My bad. I tend to say things and while it is not meant to be definite, nonetheless, if it was not emphasized it can be misconstrued as definite. The University I attend also teach that one should not conform to society. There are lots of misinformations going on and especially as propagated by the government. There was emphasis on information via the grassroot sources. Once again, I stand corrected in the absolute sense of the word. But, my statement was heavily influenced by what Trump said or was it Robert Tiozaki (sp?) once upon a time that I had attended one of his/their real-estate expo where as a gist, even CEOs are not their own boss. The statement "conform to society" was meant to allude to a freedom of being as seen with the rich. And, wealth is all relative.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Is time the wheel that turns, or the track it leaves behind?
|
posted:hemsoo on 05/26/2010 12:17:04
|
--------------------------------------------------------------
When asked if I saw the glass half-full or half-empty I answered: Who cares? Either way it means someone started something and didn't finish it. Anonymous
|
posted:poorrichardless on 05/27/2010 06:22:34
|
|
esme wrote:
|
poorrichardless wrote:
My perception of some my relatives' opinions did not come from my parents but rather direct contact. Maybe I should not have used the term "look down" because in thinking about it, it was more or less little verbal jabs or slights. Not so much "look down" but put downs. Maybe I am overly sensative and interpreting incorrectly. You may disagree with me but it seems that on average a rich Cambodian person tends to act more like an ass, more arrogant than an equally rich white American. I'm not saying all rich Cambodians act like asses but maybe 80% do versus 50% of white Americans? For all the American CEOs who act like jerks you have a lot who are well grounded. The two richest guys in America Buffet and Gates seem like pretty nice guys. How many very rich Cambodians (whether in Cambodia or overseas) can you say are well grounded and don't expect the seas to part and people to bow down as they walk the earth?
|
Actually I think rich people that don't work for their money tend to act more like an ass and more arrogant than those that sweated blood and tears to make their riches. And I think this phenomenon exists exclusive to race or nationality.
|
I think that is for the most part true. I think that is definitely true of those rich asses in Cambodia who make easy money through corruption. But then again they would probably be asses anyhow. Money just gives them the means to openly display their real (lack of) character. But what about Cambodians in America who are arrogant about their level of education? They must've worked hard for their education. Do you think they are overly proud because there are so few (according to the Silvy/Navy thread)?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Wise governments encourage the airing of grievances; foolish governments do the opposite - to their peril.
|
posted:poorrichardless on 05/27/2010 06:28:08
|
Thanks hemsoo. This is exactly the granddaughter I was thinking about. Can't believe she even has the nerve to complain about not being involved in how and to which charities Mr. Buffet donates HIS money. The man earned every penny of his money himself and somehow she thinks she should be involved in dictating where it will go. The sense of entitlement is outrageous. I'm glad he cut her off. $40,000 for an artist is not bad at all. And the article was right to point out that it's most likely only because of the Buffet name that she makes that much. Mr. Buffet paid over $100,000 for her art school tuition, meaning she does not have the burden of student loans to pay back. He did more than he should've given what a spoiled brat she is. The way she tells the story you'd think she grew up in the ghettos deprived of all the opportunities and comforts I'm sure she had. It's not like her step dad Peter Buffet is poor. Even though the step granddaughter is an ingrate looks like Warren's son turned out alright. http://www.bvonmoney.com/2010/05/10/peter-buffett-new-book-life-is-what-you-make-it/
--------------------------------------------------------------
Wise governments encourage the airing of grievances; foolish governments do the opposite - to their peril.
|
posted:reksmay on 05/27/2010 11:34:45
|
Thanks, Hemsoo! Had I taken the time to research the issue, it'd have saved myself some unnecessary negative perception.
Edit: After having read the article to learn that Nicole, the person of discussion, wasn't even related to Warren at all, and to malign his name in such a way is over the top. I thought she was his biological grandchild. Though Warren treated all his children and his children's children with the same stick in a meritocracy way, it was not my point of argument where it appears as if by seeming to side with Nicole, that I am in favor of moochers/mooching. That is not the case. It was my perception that if she is indeed related to him by blood and that he treated his children and children's children with the same measuring stick, and while that is fair and not to mention noble in the eyes of most of us, my grievance is that there is far greater inheritance than the wealth of money. I speak of the inheritance of the inside knowledge, where notwitstanding the biological makeup, the resources available that would otherwise help make or break a person depending on their own individual merit. However, the other factor is that, perhaps that person is not interested in the same trade as his so how can he help nurture their potential? A person, like Trump for example, was reportedly to say that he had been in the jaws of bankruptcy and back to amass his wealth again, is an example of what I'm trying to get at. Is intelligence inherited biologically or through nurturing?
Conversely, to most of us I think, the fact that Warren did such a noble thing as to treat his family with the same measuring stick (he did what is humanly possible for him with his family without resorting to nepotism, and not that he has to, but that he chose to), is to give most of us a chance to make it ourselves and levy the playing field to the best of his intention. He was cited to offer knowledge to those who asked as alluded to by PRL. Warren's action to announce such is very supreme, very noble, very exemplary seldom the rich are seen to follow suite. On the other hand, I do not begrudge the rich to guard their hard-gained knowledge fiercely. Hence, I can understand the legacy of fortunes from one generation to the next. Even such knowledges were shared via books, they barely skim the surface of what is actually the real knowledge. This is my opinion.
Back to Nicole at hand, given her claim that she can't afford cable at an annual salary of $40K in San Francisco is a lot of BS from my opinion as a person who lives in the Bay Area and can attest. Granted, the cost of living is high, but $40K per year is more than what most could make and I am sure if one is frugal enough, could afford it. In terms of health insurance, well, that is her problem. Warren did what he could do for all his family members, and she wasn't even related to him by blood at that, as a token more than charitable favor and instead of being grateful about it, to go in public and act the victim is more than any humanly being could bear, given Warren's situation. Back to the question---Is intelligence inherited biologically or through nurturing?---a question where its answer may perhaps be more in line to what the topic of discussion in this thread. I personally think it is a combination of many factors, biology does have a say in it, but good or bad with respect to how much a person gain from it, is still dependent on each individual person. For example, we are not like our parents, nor our parents are like us. We see differently than our parents and conversely our parents' views. The underlining factors may be due to experiences and the set dogma/perception one holds closely. What we do, though our individual action, because we live in a certain society with its set stereotype, can have an impact on our family as the point of origin---our ancestry. We all have obligations, whether or not we say we are independent. The issues is if we choose to care or not. For example, a debilitating question as posed: howcome with one's education, that one can be so ignorant in a certain life's choices? It is a question that seeks to equate the education one gains through the institution with one that one may have gotten elsewhere like at home or through genetic factor or something, though this question is not race/ethnic inclusive/exclusive. The idea of "book smartness vs. street smartness" is reminiscent of this. Though it should not be equated, nonetheless, one may unconsciously or consciously do it and, the psychological consequences can be harmful that can be seen in any given society. Hence, there is a system of "democracy" in America where one is free to voice an opinion without fear of persecution. A combination of both street and book smartness, and in high amounts of both, in my opinion, is highly favored. Such combination exists in various degrees in each individual. While that is the case, in any given situation or discourse by accident or by intent, to harbor respect on one another is favorable and admirable as a whole in order to avoid disharmony as MrDarcy/Soch advises.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Is time the wheel that turns, or the track it leaves behind?
|
|
|