steungsongkae wrote:

Lok Steungsongkae,

I will continue to point out your lies so long as you continue to tell lies.

LIE no. 34

steungsongkae wrote:

FACT No. 34a:

In late September or early October 2008, I was the one who copied and pasted at least one post from kc written by khemrak on the 2008 US presidential campaign and expressed my hope that he would join KW.

I can find the link, if anyone wishes to see.

FACT NO. 34b: I will debate with anyone who does not resort to personal attacks and who has a minimum of intellectual integrity. 

FACT NO. 34c:

k15 wrote:

FACT No. 34d:

When khemrak was a moderator in kc, I wrote at least one post bemoaning the fact that some debates were not level-laying fields since moderators, e.g. khemrak were both referees and players. This is not a comment of a coward.

LIE NO. 35

steungsongkae wrote:

FACT No. 35a:  

If you didn't  know whether khemrak is a he or a she or if you didn't know khemrak offline , how would you know whether he had lost interest or not? 

FACT NO. 35b:

[sui_generis]As I recall, Khemrak had some personal and professional matters he was dealing with privately[/quote]

LIE NO. 36:

steungsongkae wrote:

FACT no. 36a: I have never attacked n1985 or hemsoo on a personal level.

FACTNo. 36b:

you never defended n1985 or hemsoo whenever I put them on the spot.

If what you did is what you call defending, please provide evidence and links.

Your idea of defense is always to personalize the issue by personally attacking me, not by providing evidence of why what I said is wrong.

Please provide evidence (and links) of where you provided reasons why any comment (or attack as you call it) I have made to n1985 or hemsoo is wrong. 

When your "defense" is not based on vitriol, it consists of asking questions such as this one

steungsongkae wrote:

when I replied 

In this thread http://www.khmerwitica.com/forum/posts/id_3636/page_1/

Please list the rationale, evidence or elaboration khemrak provided for the statements he made and that I highlighted.  

You are unable to provide it. 

 LIE NO. 37:

steungsongkae wrote:

FACT NO. 37a:

I have never had any harsh word or any argument with reksmay.

FACT no. 37b: You have never defended reksmay in any of her debates or disagreement with anyone within KW.

FACT No. 37 c

Reksmay herself says so.

reksmay wrote:

LIE NO. 38

steungsongkae wrote:

FACT no. 38a:

I have not attacked khemrak.

 I only commented on khemrak’s writing and “argumentation" style and on the familiarity of his thoughts. My post is here.

http://www.khmerwitica.com/public/forum/posts/page_4/id_6034/title_our-country-cambodia/

FACT no. 38b: khemrak has not “stepped out of line from” me or anyone.

He “debated” with Alex, KSaron and causality in this thread who disagreed with his views.

http://www.khmerwitica.com/forum/posts/id_3636/page_1/

Unless khemrak resorts to personal attacks against me, in the present or the future, I have no reason to retaliate.

In the past, during all my kc years, if my memory serves me right, we almost never “debated” because khemrak almost never posted anything in the Politics forum.

LIE NO. 39:

steungsongkae wrote:

steungsongkae wrote:

FACT NO. 39a: you are the one who is a congenital liar.

I have provided evidence of 40 lies you have told within the past 6 months.

FACT NO. 39b

If you call me a liar, please provide evidence (and links) of my lying at any time within kc and KW.  

FACT no. 39c: Every time I have asked for evidence of anything, you have been unable to provide it.

LIE NO. 39:

steungsongkae wrote:

FACT NO. 39: I am not the one who resorts to lies or pot shots or personal insults. You are the one.

KW is strewn with the evidence of your lies, pot shots, personal attacks and name-calling.

Immediate evidence of your pot shot?

steungsongkae wrote:

FACT: Since that Vietnamese made the remark to you (presumably a Khmer), he was probably aiming his comment at you, based on what he has seen and heard and generalizing from a sample of one (you?) or other Khmers he has met.

Since this Viet has never met me, he would have had no idea as to whether I fitted his cliché of Khmers or not.

Since I cannot stand yuons and have had little contact with Vietnamese, I doubt very much I would have helped reinforce any Vietnamese person’s generalization about Khmers.

LIE NO. 40
steungsongkae wrote:

IMO, only KSaron or Alex has that kind of patience. 

steungsongkae wrote:

What does Cambodia in 1954[prior to the NGO era] have to do with post-1993 Cambodia in the NGO era?

What does AIDS have to do with NGOs?

What has any of this got to do with the price of fish? 

THE FOLLOWING POSTS  ARE IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER, as they appeared in n1985's thread

http://www.khmerwitica.com/forum/posts/page_last/id_6034/title_our-country-cambodia/

Hi Sui_generis,

Maybe this post would bring him back?LOL

IMO, many KW’s readers (myself included) certainly miss the eloquence and rich vocabulary.

The writing style is definitely impressive.

Yet, having now read all posts much more carefully, I came away with the distinct impression that I have read almost identical thoughts expressed by many expat posters (including moderators) at www.khmer440.com and  by Cambodian government  officials, albeit in much, much worse English or in Khmer,  and, of course, within KW, with the same degree of self-assurance. LOL

I am also left with a sense of respect for Alex’s patience which, to date, I assumed (wrongly) only KSaron is capable of having.

On balance, I am left with just one question. 

How does one debate with someone who presents his opinions as facts so forcefully and so dogmatically, albeit so eloquently, without any rationale, evidence or elaboration?

For example,

RESPONSE TO ABOVE POST

Lok Steungsongkae,

Since you have chosen to defend khemrak (surprise, surprise, LOL), [as if he was incapable of “defending” himself, if he wanted to), I have no choice but to point out the lies that you resorted to.

LIE no. 31:

FACT no. 31:

I only commented on khemrak’s writing and “argumentation" style and on the familiarity of his thoughts. 

I never said whether I liked or disliked, agreed or disagreed with what he wrote in that thread. 

As for "you don't like it, b/c you thought your broken leg are just fine the way it is, to hop around "I cannot speak for others but, in all my years in kc and now in KW, I have been looking and still waiting for a poster with intellectual ability and integrity who will present opposing views with supporting relevant rationale and convincing evidence and without resorting to fallacious arguments or personal attacks.

In this threadhttp://www.khmerwitica.com/forum/posts/id_3636/page_1/

Please list the rationale, evidence or elaboration khemrak provided for the statements he made and that I highlighted.  

LIE NO. 32

FACT no. 32: The above is a typical “straw man argument” that is also a favorite of yours. None of these people (Alex, KSaron, Causality) ever said that NGOs alone could help any country become a developed country.

 FACT no. 33

LIE NO. 33:

Khemrak-or steungsongkae style statement :

FACT: “Thank God” is just an English expression, just like “Oh My God” or not so politely, “Damn”, “Shit”.

The above lies and facts provide further evidence  for the following statements.

Lok Steungsongkae,

I will continue to point out your lies so long as you continue to tell lies.

LIE no. 34

FACT No. 34a:

In late September or early October 2008, I was the one who copied and pasted at least one post from kc written by khemrak on the 2008 US presidential campaign and expressed my hope that he would join KW.

I can find the link, if anyone wishes to see.

FACT NO. 34b: I will debate with anyone who does not resort to personal attacks and who has a minimum of intellectual integrity. 

FACT NO. 34c:

FACT No. 34d:

When khemrak was a moderator in kc, I wrote at least one post bemoaning the fact that some debates were not level-laying fields since moderators, e.g. khemrak were both referees and players. This is not a comment of a coward.

LIE NO. 35

FACT No. 35a:  

If you didn't  know whether khemrak is a he or a she or if you didn't know khemrak offline , how would you know whether he had lost interest or not? 

FACT NO. 35b:

[sui_generis]As I recall, Khemrak had some personal and professional matters he was dealing with privately[/quote]

LIE NO. 36:

FACT no. 36a: I have never attacked n1985 or hemsoo on a personal level.

FACTNo. 36b:

you never defended n1985 or hemsoo whenever I put them on the spot.

If what you did is what you call defending, please provide evidence and links.

Your idea of defense is always to personalize the issue by personally attacking me, not by providing evidence of why what I said is wrong.

Please provide evidence (and links) of where you provided reasons why any comment (or attack as you call it) I have made to n1985 or hemsoo is wrong. 

When your "defense" is not based on vitriol, it consists of asking questions such as this one

when I replied 

In this thread http://www.khmerwitica.com/forum/posts/id_3636/page_1/

Please list the rationale, evidence or elaboration khemrak provided for the statements he made and that I highlighted.  

You are unable to provide it. 

 LIE NO. 37:

FACT NO. 37a:

I have never had any harsh word or any argument with reksmay.

FACT no. 37b: You have never defended reksmay in any of her debates or disagreement with anyone within KW.

FACT No. 37 c

Reksmay herself says so.

LIE NO. 38

FACT no. 38a:

I have not attacked khemrak.

 I only commented on khemrak’s writing and “argumentation" style and on the familiarity of his thoughts. My post is here.

http://www.khmerwitica.com/public/forum/posts/page_4/id_6034/title_our-country-cambodia/

FACT no. 38b: khemrak has not “stepped out of line from” me or anyone.

He “debated” with Alex, KSaron and causality in this thread who disagreed with his views.

http://www.khmerwitica.com/forum/posts/id_3636/page_1/

Unless khemrak resorts to personal attacks against me, in the present or the future, I have no reason to retaliate.

In the past, during all my kc years, if my memory serves me right, we almost never “debated” because khemrak almost never posted anything in the Politics forum.

LIE NO. 39:

FACT NO. 39a: you are the one who is a congenital liar.

I have provided evidence of 40 lies you have told within the past 6 months.

FACT NO. 39b

If you call me a liar, please provide evidence (and links) of my lying at any time within kc and KW.  

FACT no. 39c: Every time I have asked for evidence of anything, you have been unable to provide it.

LIE NO. 39:

FACT NO. 39: I am not the one who resorts to lies or pot shots or personal insults. You are the one.

KW is strewn with the evidence of your lies, pot shots, personal attacks and name-calling.

Immediate evidence of your pot shot?

FACT: Since that Vietnamese made the remark to you (presumably a Khmer), he was probably aiming his comment at you, based on what he has seen and heard and generalizing from a sample of one (you?) or other Khmers he has met.

Since this Viet has never met me, he would have had no idea as to whether I fitted his cliché of Khmers or not.

Since I cannot stand yuons and have had little contact with Vietnamese, I doubt very much I would have helped reinforce any Vietnamese person’s generalization about Khmers.

LIE NO. 40 

FACT No. 40 

The key word is “still”.

Having now read khemrak’s posts in this threadhttp://www.khmerwitica.com/forum/posts/id_3636/page_1/

And asked myself this question,

What makes you think I “want” to debate with someone like that? 

IMO, only KSaron or Alex has that kind of patience. 

What does Cambodia in 1954[prior to the NGO era] have to do with post-1993 Cambodia in the NGO era?

What does AIDS have to do with NGOs?

What has any of this got to do with the price of fish? 

K15,

Just not to spoil n1985 thread, please let it all hang out here. What is that you problem with Khmer, with Hun sen, with anything. This is a all for one thread.

Fine it will be a fair game, if you lie, I will tell you, you are lying, if I lie, you tell me. No childish, please.

So, there you go:

I said:

1/NGOs are created to do a temporary solution, to bridge a gap, but NOT to perpetuate the sense of dependency, with no end in sight. 

2/Short term solution only( the time frame should be from 1993 to 2000), when prolong, it can be sidetracked, like the 95% that Theary Seng had noticed.

3/The sidetracked organization can be interpreted as something bigger than what it really is, thus give people false  hope and expectation that would lead to false sense of security, when push come to shout. Whether it be the drug addicts or the home grown right groups.

4/The government will have to take control of these responsibility gradually  from these organization, even if that mean to put some of these organization out of work.

5/ No body deny the fact that there are corruption, poverty, prostitution, and oppression in Kampuchea. But all I ask is that let's be patient. Change does not come over night, or poverty can be eradicated with term limited, or corruption/prostitution can be stamped out completely(unless we adopt Islamic law, like that of Iran). When we want change, more often than not, we must change ourselves. One harvest what one sowed.

Kampuchea is not in garden of Eden by herself. She is surrounded by two much bigger and more powerful neighbors. And these two are not always in sync to help Kampuchea with generosity or honesty, to put it naively. History has shown again and again, whether it be peace deal or war deal regarding to Kampuchea, has never been signed on Kampuchean soil, but have always been on foreign soil: in Peking, Moscow, Hanoi, Bangkok, Paris, Geneva or Washington etc...and it goes without saying that even some of the decision making that would decide the fate of the country and her people.

Let's not forget that who decided that the NVA/VC could use Kampuchea as their sanctuaries, 10 kilometers inside Kampuchea? Sihanouk just played death with the tiger, hopefully when all done and over with he could claim some sort victory(spoil). Who decided that it is OK to drop over 500,000 tone of bombs on eastern part of Kampuchea alone that killed about 500,000 Khmer? Sihanouk was so irritated by the sight that he canceled the press conference in Ratanak kiri, of the VNA/VC encroachment/aggression and magnitude/destruction of the bombs dropped.

Let's all be reminded that it was these two events(whatever the cause, some say it was the Viet, but some say it was the US) that affect Kampuchea for the next 40 years: that Kampuchea had gone through three regimes changed by the very same force.

WHO made that decision? Certainly it were not by Khmer politicians in both causes. But it was made possible b/c we were not getting along with each others. Each who were responsible for making such fool, had ego that so much bigger than what the country and her people could have handled.

For once, since the collapse of Angkorian Empire, we have this rare moment of our peace and stability, where people can at least take a break from killing each others or being in struggle to free the country from occupier(s). Let's take this rare opportunity to do something more memorable to do what we can to help or to do something that our later generation can be proud of, rather than spew hatred toward each others, just to show we are smart or good at so doing.

The current government is far from perfect, but it is not all that bad. Again I am using relative term here. Considering where we are and what we had gone through, as nation, we could have been much worst. Let's be realistic in what we want to do, verse what we can do. Consider ourselves lucky that one of the two is not God's chosen people.

One of the reasons that I ask you and other readers about the successful Khmer emergence from the French colonial was that it was almost a miracle the way Khmer came out from it all(as I had described in other post), after 99 years under the French. where 99.9% were not that lucky.

Why is that?

K15,

You are wasting your time.

I will be here watching you, unless I am banned like jMon.

Except that from now on, I will be more blunt. When I see  you lying. While you can keep up with my lies(#38? lolz), I lost count on yours.

I was the one who asked you to see if you got any fact left in you or understand why we are where we are today. Failure to do such will result in shooting lies in all directions, with no purpose.

ANd now you ask me back. Oh boy.

Given his libertarian philosophy, Alex would not ban anyone unless KW turned, once again,  into the cesspool it became in the second half of 2009.

Steungsongkae,

More blunt than you have been for the past two years? It's hard to imagine even blunter name-calling, personal attacks, etc. 

Why wait until "you see me lying"? Please provide evidence of one past instance of my lying.

Lost count of my lies? You are not even capable of finding one lie in the thousands of posts I have written in kc and KW. Like I said, you really are congenitally intellectually dishonest.

Ok. Failure to understand the relevance of your questions is “shooting lies in all directions, with no purpose”.

Steungsongkae,

You think you are so smart by testing people to see whether they can guess the answers you had in mind (your answers) and you feel so superior when you play this kind of mind game with people in your milieu, those who feel they need to humor you because they need you.

Hence your avatar “Proud to be who I am, and where I am from. Successful with who I am and at what I do"

 http://www.khmerwitica.com/steungsongkae

You think KW is like your social milieu of uneducated working -class people (Cambodians and foreigners) who play along or who don't know any better.

Hun Sen behaves exactly the same way in Cambodia although he is, at best, a one-eyed man in the Kingdom of the Blind.

Countless uneducated Cambodian men behave exactly the same way in the various overseas Khmer communities, i.e. exactly like the drunkard n1985 bumped into in a roadside restaurant in Siem Reap who is accustomed to holding court in front of retards who would do anything for a can of beer (or sell their votes at election time for a kg of Monosodium glutamate or a krama). 

You are absolutely right about that.

Having read his posts in

http://www.khmerwitica.com/forum/posts/id_3636/page_1/

I would not even waste my time debating with khemrak, khemrin’s guru, who, at least, has something going for him.

BOTTOM OF PREVIOUS POST SPILLED INTO THIS POST BECAUSE OF KW SOFTWARE GLITCH 

You are absolutely right about that.

Having read his posts in

http://www.khmerwitica.com/forum/posts/id_3636/page_1/

I would not even waste my time debating with khemrak, khemrin’s guru, who, at least, has something going for him.

From

http://khmer.cc/members/guestbook.html?member=khemrin

From: khemrak
Date: March 11th, 2004 9:19pm 
Subject: hey big guy

What makes you think I would want to waste my time debating with someone like you, someone who is totally devoid of intellectual honesty and who tells so many lies ?

What makes you think that you satisfy any of the following criteria?

All he does is spewing the peace loving lyrics without any substance.  When pointed of the lies he pretend to laugh it off in hope that people will not see what is behind the smokes.  I am tempted to say that it would be a waste of time having a dialogue with the so called peaceful representatives but allowing them to do so without saying anything, would be more dangerous.

Do you understand what I said or you just too paranoia to quickly reply? I said"Just a start on the right path, let hear one country that is successfully help to be fully developed country by NGOs alone... And look at the countries that have NO NGO at all, are they any worst? Like when the French left Kampuchea in 1954..."

I never accused anyone of saying that NGOs alone can help develop a country, BUT ask if you can come up with one. I said NGOs is not a long term solution. I hope you understand this time.

My reply:

See, this is what happen when you are left within your own environment with the comparable ideology, left wondering and wander all over the places, digging up old dirt here and there and still wandering. Here is when the opposing view(or the translation of what he/she meant) would keep you straight. But you don't like it, b/c you thought your broken leg are just fine the way it is, to hop around.

So, just to keep it straight, let me ask you this: How can you conclude that the author wrote without any rationale, evidence or elaboration?

Just a start on the right path, let hear one country that is successfully help to be fully developed country by NGOs alone... And look at the countries that have NO NGO at all, are they any worst? Like when the French left Kampuchea in 1954...

The author as I understand it, was talking about real growth and sustain growth, not just to get people in trouble and leave for Thailand or giving out syringes to drug addict and perpetuate this sense of dependency.

What you did with the above post, surely is your trad mark of taking pot shot at people from safy distance, from rat hole, from confort zone. Now you are flushed out off that comfort zone. What evidence do you have  that prove what author said was without any rationale, evidence or elaboration?

Glad you realize that. With your silly lies and fact thing, it just makes you look even sillier. lol

The only thing that this author is not poster with intellectual ability and integrity who will present opposing views with supporting relevant rationale and convincing evidence

is b/c he or she does not sing the same tune of hate, fear and paranoia like you.

You see how low your criteria is.

Steungsongkae,

The proof that the following statements that khemrak made had no rationale, evidence or elaboration is the fact that you yourself are unable to find any rationale, evidence or elaboration for those statements.

I challenge any Kwitiker to find the supporting rationale, evidence or elaboration provided by khemrak for these statements he made.

Yes, it is good that you the same idea. This hate, fear and paranoia should be stopped and removed from our community and country. So the new generation of idea and philosophy can move forward.