In Buddha and Ramayana epic stories Phnom Hemapean is located on Earth not in Haven.

So basically what you are saying is Preshkrou Vuthy committed fraud by spending million of $ to build Wat Toul Preash Reachea?
And putting up a fake video of Phnom Hemapean to prove that he was there?

I disagree

your text in Khmer:
 

the video talk about Mt Keylas not hemapearn.Did you listen clearly what he said in video? that is only a short part.look other relate video.   look this video at 0:24 (he said phop nis. phop is like planet, realm.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q7YYMO5PZo&feature=related

look here at 2:05  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOUfRkkwlFA&feature=related

if u believe him that those thing can talk go see in malasia Batu cave.  image google batu cave you'll see.

and this is him going to heaven  http://www.khmerwitica.com/forum/posts/page_last/id_5904/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofyyB07MI9o&feature=related

,

yeah Peah kru Thien vuthy told people that he film from different realm. he's a liar.

Thank you MrJomNab for your invaluable input. Truly that is the Buddhist thing to do, invoking intelligence within adherents. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, it is highly praised. I, myself, would like to do likewise as I have been trying thus far. But, sometimes intelligence comes from within in spite of promotion of alternative ideas as broadcasted. This is with respect to one's experience, after all. As such, it is up to every person's will to take what they can, or none at all.

You cannot possibly know the many things detailed, nor can I, either, for that matter. Having said that, you cannot possibly know my true intention is in broadcasting some video clips without my disclosing it, which I will as I go along. I am responding to you, operating on many assumptions on my part of you even in spite of my lack of knowledge of who you are, but only at what you have given me as source materials to work with. Therefore, in advance, I will ask your forgiveness if I appear bold and or rude with respect to certain things alluded by you.

It is always with the intention to promote awareness, expanding the horizon of one's perception/understanding with respect to the already existing literature pertaining to Buddhism. It is to augment not to delete any existing knowledge pertaining Buddhism. The world is an infinite possibility of Knowledge and what is contained in texts is just a minute fraction of that as Shakyamuni Gautoma Buddha mentioned (He taught only but a handful of what is useful to the emancipation of human suffering).

If one chooses not to agree with the “novel” concept as broadcasted by Lok Ta, then there is nothing wrong with that as it is always the will of every human being to make with respect to their experiences and intelligence working in tandem. In America, as I recall it, one is free to broadcast information free from obstructions to anyone's or institution's rights of being. Therefore, Lok Ta's broadcasting is not to hinder Buddhism, but expand its already vast Knowledge, if in case one is not already familiar with it.

Per your accusation that he is filming “various landscapes and statues in India and Malaysia…to swindle people,” whereby per your conclusion, it is not Mt. Keylas in Heaven but in Batu Cave on Earth, I say you are correct to a point. This is because as you have mentioned yourself, “you are not entirely familiar” with all the skills of Lok Ta at “swindling people“. I cannot fault you for this for I do not know your history. I, myself, cannot possibly know all his skills, either. But, from what I had gathered from Lok Ta, I believe he is capable of even more swindling than you can imagine. Why, if he has his ways, which is highly difficult for there are too many intelligent people about on Earth, he will reduce them all to poverty save for the wealth of peace and well being as a result of nonattachment. But, you see. He understands that that cannot be for that is putting too much strain on the people. As such, he advises them to do so within their own limit.

Wat Toul Preach Reach Chea cannot come into being without his efforts at “swindling” believers into its construction. You see. To be successful at what you have to do, you got to learn to be as crafty as he is. Otherwise, due to the intelligence of human being, they cannot buy it. Then, what must he do if he is charged by the Heavens to have certain things done on Earth as preparation for the coming of the Doomsday? How will he answer to them if he failed in his task? Therefore, he’s got to be crafty. Now, the question is…how? Thanks to you, you have unveiled one craftiness.

He can’t fool you for it is evident in the picture that you provided that Mt. Keylas is not in Heaven, but in a cave called Batu in Malaysia. Thanks to you, I have augmented my learning. But, I wonder if you have really understood what it is that you see before your eyes? This is a question whereby its answer is entirely dependent on one’s inner mind. But, a word if I may, there are bigger fishes to fry than what is seen at hand. As you cannot see the bigger picture, what use is it to plant it in you? However, I will try.

As a disclaimer, I cannot possibly follow all of the duties of Lok Ta and as such, cannot possibly know every detail. However, Lok Ta is most generous to us idiots (as in me, myself, and I), who wish to “blindly” believe in him. Haha. Yes. We are blind. He mentioned that He doesn’t know everything, either. So, why are we so stupid? I guess it is ingrained in us (as in me, myself, and I). Thank you, sincerely, for your words of admonition, by the way. But, speaking for myself, I am very happily “in the dark” as you may see it. I will address your criticisms accordingly from my perspective and my perspective only.

Criticism No. 1: There are many places Lok Ta went on Earth that he claims to be heaven or other realm.

Yes. That is true. Earth is a realm like any other realm of existence. They exist in parallel with one another and not top (heaven) or bottom (hell) as we stereotypically perceive. We tend to refer to things using certain words to depict level, like “thaan kandal” aka Middle Earth, or “thaan leur” (realm above aka heaven) or “thaan krom” (lower realm aka hell), and perceive these realms to be ordered in such ways for ease of communication/understanding. While it is easier, there lies the propagation of stereotype, making it highly difficult to enlighten for criticisms get in the way.

The title “Mt. Keylas”, is it restrictive only to certain places, or can not a certain place on Earth be called that as well? When I think of Portland, is it in Oregon or is it in Maine? To insist that it is only in Maine for that is the one I’m most familiar with, is to be wrong in my stance for surely, there are people who are dispersed throughout the globe who lived in another land that is called Portland, but in Oregon. Likewise, there are similar title, similar mountain existing in various realms. We just have to be open-minded to them. To be restrictive is to limit one’s enlightenment.

On Earth, it is quite claustrophobic enough as it is, limited only to the four elements that ground my being here…namely Earth, Fire, Air, and Water. There are far more elements than just four in number. If one can aggregate more, then surely one’s horizon get expanded where being in the same place, one can detect another level of existence, another being ethereal in form, simply by one having another element. Sadly, we as in me, myself, and I on the most part, are working hard toward this objective of arming ourselves with these tools. Good things don’t come easily, as I recall.

If one cannot see this, that Earth is in parallel with other realms of known existence, let us think of the purgatory realm---the ghost realm. Why is it that we sometimes can sense ghosts? There are those who are more sensitive to their existence than others. Just because we can’t sense them on the most part, do we discredit their existence? If one so discredit, then what is the use in claiming one as Buddhist? It is the belief that these beings and realms exists that we Buddhists, as I perceive it, continue to pay reverence, continue to burn incense, candles, make prayers, to them, etc., for peace and well being. If they are not in parallel with us, how can they reach us when we ask for help?

These realms exist in parallel…yet, some realms are farther than we can reach. The ghost realm happens to be closer to Earth and as such we can sense them if we are in tuned. Those who aren’t can, too, to a certain extent. Since these realms are extremely far apart like light years away, only the mind can reach it, as I have read in various sources in Buddhist texts. This is called Meditation, a specific name for this kind of meditation, I am not familiar with. However, there are places in heaven we can reach by our modern technology.

Through space crafts, we can reach the moon. However, we say we cannot see any heavenly creature. Whose fault is that? Often times we rely on external sources like microscope and or telescope to gather evidences and draw conclusions to fit a certain kind of structural purpose of the universe. But, the reliance on self to see with the mind’s eyes is quickly diminished with the advent of modern technology. Even with the use of modern technology, there is the accusation that it is doctoring up to fool the mass.

Where is there a win in this, as I perceive the gods might ask, in enlightening the ignorant minds of human beings? Since there is no win, then it is as it should be. Like water and oil, they will separate and aggregate into their own origin of elements. Criticisms will continue to exist in tandem with the will to enlighten. Such is the way as we humans seek the path of enlightenment---to question, to ponder, to draw conclusion, etc. Above all, is the Middle Way: neither clinging too closely to this idea or that idea, but to go with the flow until it is proven otherwise, or no action at all. It is after all, with respect to one’s purpose, one’s objective of being in life.

To answer to your criticism, Earth is but a big playground for all the Buddha to-be. Think that India and Malaysia are the only hot spots? As you admitted, you cannot possibly know all the places. And, neither do I. But, one thing is for sure. He is doing so with a purpose. It might appear as some kind of tourist escapade he is on. Be it as it may, something cannot be forced even if it is shown. You think you have addressed the issue by highlighting what evidence you have found to dispute Lok Ta‘s claim, but I think you may have missed the mark by a long shot. I believe in your evidence, but I cannot support your conclusion. In saying you have missed the mark with your conclusion, I have alluded to some extent earlier and cannot see fit to elaborate more.

Criticism No. 2: Lok Ta is a fraud. Wat Toul Preah Reach Chea costs millions of dollars to build. Why are Buddhists so ignorant (belief without intelligence) as to believe in him, he, whom you said, swindles their money?

Per your accusation as implicated that he is spending millions of dollars building what is rightfully right for the promotion of Buddhism, that he is a fraud, I ask you WHERE exactly do you see fraud? In the building itself? Can this be any more absurd, I ask? Let me ask you, if in indeed it is a fraud, is it YOUR money that he is looting or is it the believers?

Speaking for myself, I see no fraudulent acts committed by Lok Ta of any kind as you so alluded. Inspired by his teachings, I and family donated thousands of dollars to have what I was inspired to have done constructed. A few months later (within a year or so), bam! The school house was built, the pillars supporting the Preah Vihear was built, various buildings and structures, etc., complete with my and my family’s name. Now, this is not to boast for what I have done is minor in scale. But, considering the fraudulent activity, where does that exist if what he advertised, he delivered?!

Think that a few thousand dollars or a few millions would suffice to have what is planned for Wat Toul Preah Reach Chea to surface for both awe and criticisms alike? Think that if indeed he is corrupted as you so implied, do you think WTPRC ever come into being at all? Think that the efforts of a few Khmer abroad alone who so believe could really make this possible? It is a culmination of right effort, right thinking, right leadership, right practice etc., by all who are involved that make this possible.

Think that if you so succeed in your criticisms and thwart those from believing that WTPRC would soon be obliterated? If so, then you have a long way to catch up. If WTPRC was to be fated to be obliterated, it would have been so a long time ago, at its infancy whereby the Preah Vihear was built using only woods. This is not to be mistaken. It had been burned to the ground by protestors, those who hated to have anything good built on the ground that Lok Ta purchased using his own money as accrued by his own effort of enlightening others, or swindling as you put it.

Right efforts and right Mind, there is always perseverance. As haters burned the Preah Vihear, rejoicing falsely that they had succeeded in burning Lok Ta, they got a major surprise when Lok Ta appeared unscathed whereas all the walls, beds, etc., were reduced to ashes. Later efforts had seen him built the Preah Vihear out of stones and concretes, etc. He lacks no intelligence to combat the haters’ efforts, may I inform you. If this is your path, then I advise you to arm yourself with more learning as it appears yours is quite limited in scope.

By your accusation, it is shown to me that you have not the right thinking in this aspect. What is Buddhism if not for building, for enlightenment, for perseverance in what is (w)Holy? You are very quick to accuse adherents of Lok Ta as ignorant fools who followed “without intelligence“. But so far, base on what you have given me to work with, I doubt that you really know what it means to be a Buddhist, if indeed you are one. Or, if you are Khmer in the true sense for that matter.

As you cannot possibly understand what it means to build, what all this means for Khmer, I will have to leave it at that. If you have, you would not bring forth to light this accusation. Instead, you would approach this situation in a more appropriate way, a way less accusatory in tone and more a seeker for understanding regardless of your stance, if you so seek to be enlightened or to enlighten others. As you appear to enlighten others of your limited understanding even in spite of the literatures out there, I see no longevity in adhering to your admonition. I thank you just the same for attempting. May one live and let live.

By the way, welcome to KW. There are some limitations after all when one responds via you tube.

Mr. Jomnab:

I looked at the various video clips you mention in this thread, I saw something interesting
”Standing in front of the gate: the tall statue of the GOD, indicated millennia ago this place is where the GODS reside, million of worshipers still come to celebrate their deity day once a year (Thaipusam Festival), I did not see anything that Preshkru Vuthy mention in the video wasn’t there, I am not his follower nor the believer but seeing Wat Toul Presh Rechear, I don’t think he has any bad intention, It took a lot of planning and hard work to build a religious center of that size and without a lot of help from people inside and outside of  Cambodia, this Temple won’t come into existence.

What you said in your post on  this thread is that thousand of Buddhists who contributed their hard-earned monies to build this temple were ignorant? (by saying everyone is stupid make you the smart one),

My question to you is:

“What is it really that you have against Preshkru Vuthy and The Buddhist Temple he help built in Cambodia?”

I like the temple too its very nice luxious disign.the temple did not build with his money.I've nothing againts preah kru,but I dont believe neak kan sel kork ke.I'm not the smarter, just a simple person.Buddha teach us to search for the true.without lying people the temple could not be build.

Wow! It's interesting that the supporters are not even complaining and you impose upon yourself to do so. Amazing!

Let's back track..."the temple did not build with his money." It appears you have a tremendous grudge over this, whether or not it is his money? As I am one of the supporters, I am well aware that the monies donated cannot be entirely his. But, neither can all the supporters's monies who contributed really amount to that much (millions) anyway considering how many of Khmer abroad are millionairs?

You cannot possibly perceive the tremendous wealth that Preah Kru Thien Vuthi have and even in spite of which cannot believe that he is a true person of the robes. What a load of laughs and I am saying so free from humor here. This is what is called ignorance at its supreme. To be enlightened in the material world is to be ignorant of the goal of the world.

My apologies that I cannot upload all the information at my disposal for your entertainment as well as understanding/criticism, as I see that you have reached this vastly false conclusion. Don't worry. To those who have witnessed the videos, they are smart like you as well who refuse to believe such things could possibly exist in this day and age. We are but ignorant fools who cling to the ropes of salvation as Lok Ta had tossed about freely to any who are so fooled.  

There are whole mountains of his wealth and every where he goes, he but says the words, they appear for him. Yes. To your limited sensory perception, it is but the slight of the hands, the tricks of the eyes, the doctoring of the footage where any imbecile with a knack for computer programming could whip up...But, I say one thing. It is no trick of the eyes in the results as seen in Wat Toul Preah Reach Chea. Think that such construction only happen above ground? Think again. There are plans to build more underground, in the water, where ever feasible for the purpose of enlightenment and preservation of the universe as well as Buddhism as a whole. Yes. I think you have a lot of work cut out for yourself there as he is fast fooling people again. I am but his messenger, unrecognized in any shape or form. I am trying to prepare you in advance so that you can be less dependent on antacid as I see what Lok Ta is doing has caused you some mild form of indigestion.

With your limited thinking, I see a decline in Buddhism faster than imagine. We are in this stage, may you be informed. Your accusation that he is lying has no merit as your ability is far limiting than his. Can you truly know the whole intricate workings of the universe to claim that Lok Ta is a false leader? Or, are you too stumped by the fact that he is successful in building what is considered the foundation of Buddhism with massive monuments and structures for the promotion of Buddhism as a whole, for the Peace of the world as a whole?  

If indeed your accusation hold true, then, by the law of karma, it will be as you have said. A structure built on shaky ground of lies, deceit and corruptions, will soon meet its end of destruction and obliteration. Fear not for the world is coming near as WWIII is fast approaching. See that your accusation will hold its merit with water as fires from all the ten directions rain on this holy ground known as Maha Machit Bondol Preah aka WTPRC?

At which time, if I gleaned from your response, if indeed you are a Buddhist, then may you be safe as you seek refuge in the Dharma and Buddha. If you are indeed truly concerned about the welfare of Buddhism, going around to accuse a person of lying without true understanding is not a path of noble origin. I am more than likely to agree with you if I perceive what you are saying is true. As I can not as due to my ignorance, you see, your saliva is shockingly bland in this regard.

With respect to the temple itself, it is not done with the purpose of beauty, but for the purpose of inspiration, the inspiration to do good, to say good, to practice good always. One may see the Wat and the Buddha and be inspired for peace and meditation, unlike you who are inspired instead for spewing lies and deceit with no true understanding of the whole universe, the scheme of things. This is the purpose, among many, that I want to disclose in addition to the aesthetic result of it. Truly, your understanding here is quite superficial and your action from it has given me cause to doubt your sincerity as a true practitioner of Buddhism.

 Iam well aware that the monies donated cannot be entirely his. But, neither can all the supporters's monies who contributed really amount to that much (millions) anyway considering how many of Khmer abroad are millionairs?

   yeah you  right not alots. but one dollar each believer, one million beleiver..?reaksmey you are a smart person. and a clever person like you still dont see the true? now I understand who u r.lets people judge if they want to search for the true.  I try my best to express in english.

Time will tell the true.  (I dont really believe in god also) . I am just seaching for the true.

you are a very good writer Reakamey  :)

if you intrerst in those thing check this  http://paldendorje.com/ I wish you get out from the dark.

he didnt build beautifull temple,big buddha. but why I believe in him then Vuthy?( I Question myself.)  maybe its my karma...

[quote="reksmay"]

Wow! It's interesting that the supporters are not even complaining and you impose upon yourself to do so. Amazing!

they will not just complain when they know the true.

I am just a simple normal person searching for the true. mabye I am wrong...thats my karma... If Lok Ta is real, please show to the intire world, lets the world know...there will be only one religion. No more killing no more hating..just show the pathatayek and other trick...to discovery chanel, myth buster..ect, ect... When the world see that he could build temple in 24k gold.

MrJomNab,

Thank you for your honesty. I can see that you are trying to search for the truth. I am likewise. I do not dispute your evidence. However, I am disputing your conclusion aka accusation of Lok Ta based on your understanding of the evidence you brought forth. Now, I understand well opinions and facts cannot go hand in hand. But, I also know facts are not always cut and dry as you make them appear. I am reasserting the idea of the Middle Way. Just because it is seen by one person it does not mean it does not happen or seen by another.

True, Lok Ta went to that place called Mt. Keylas. True that you said it is Mt. Batu. But, you and I are ordinary human being. Until we can learn the power to "pathahatayek", will we know that he is absolutely lying as you so surely implicated? Until I can do likewise and prove personally that that is impossible and that place he is saying is not there, then I will say with 100% certainty that he is lying, to confirm your allegation.

You have brought forth evidence as seen with the naked eyes, the human limitations, I do not doubt. I am alluding to a more sophisticated approach, one that would take eons to build if one is to arrive at a more accurate conclusion. This is something that some people like Thoudong monks are doing in the forest, which ordinary human beings like us who are full of distractions cannot fathom let alone practice. Until one practice the practice and dispute it whole-heartedly, then can one be assured of the certainty of anything. At which time, it is a fact only to that person.

You are doing a good job at spreading what you think is the truth, but be advised that there are others with more in-depth analysis, who prefer to observe if not taking part with the action, than to actively advertise in the negative. Such people have more right thinking for in their ambivalence of the truth, would not dare to discredit another's claim for they lack the Knowledge of the Universe in its entirety. If one can exhibit the same ability that Lok Ta can, then I would consider that person's stance more carefully. As it stands, no one can.

However, this is besides the point----the fact that Lok Ta "pathahatayek" to heaven. Lok Ta is on a mission and He is doing what is his duty---HIS DUTY! It is his generous nature to show to his followers evidences of what he is doing. Buddha in previous time do not have the benefit of the modern technology like the digital camera to fool his followers, you see. Even with Buddha's true power then, many still have a hard time believing him. So, go figure.

As it is his duty, he is doing so with or without any one's participation. He is broadcasting out of generosity, compassion. That is all. Believe or not is up to individual's mind to make. Whether or not anyone contribute their hard-earned money is besides the goal of his mission. He has the means to get what he needs to be done done. If one chooses to contribute, then it is that person's personal desire for something in exchange. For instance, is it not a Buddhist way to build temples and rest houses and Buddha statues for the purpose of enlightenment, for peace, for promotion of Buddhism? If you think this idea is inferior, then truly you and I have opposing idea about Buddhism.

If Lok Ta delivered that in spades, what is it to you whose money it is? He gave them credits where they are dued, right? Plus, it is HIS land! He is very generous in allowing freeway for any who are so inspired to build on HIS land! How can anyone begrudge his generosity so is beyond me. If anything, I would be really proud of the level of work, level of organization, level of leadership that Lok Ta did to pull it off! No one in Khmer history presently can do that. We (as in me, myself, and I) are proud to be under his umbrella of leadership. Are you stumped with the fact that it appears he is claiming the credit alone? Incredulous!  

He never did. And, it is evident throughout the Wat's complex. We, as in all of us who are believers and followers and even Lok Ta, never even consider this an individual effort. We are all in it together! It is this unity that has seen such tremendous results. A result so spectacular that it irritates someone like you, who is on this noble quest for Truth, to pick bones when there seems to be none, at the moment. Yes. Let Time tell the Truth. I am not here to shove down Truth at anyone's throat, either. Nor, to reiterate, discredit your truth, either. I am saying let us be more open-minded. There are things Lok Ta said that are waay too amazing to believe, I know that. But, above all, to say that he is an out and out liar and a fraud, that is too much, don't you think, especially from when one has not graduated in the Arahatship of Enlightenment, of Truth Seeking? 

MrJomNab. Cleverness, smartness, what does that have anything to do with the price of eggs in China? Do you insinuate that I am pulling some kind of wool over people's eyes, or something? Intelligence, let me tell you, is relative. I will tell you right off the bat that I am most ignorant. I am, like most people, yourself included, on this noble quest for Truth. I seek understanding, enlightenment. It is this trait that has seen me continue to be open-minded about other ideologies, mindful of my speech, say of only things I'm positively sure for myself (personally), and avoid harmful words for when it is later proven incorrect, it is I who would receive the brunt end of the stick.

Such is the way for a Buddhist follower. It is also the Buddhist way to spread the good news when they occur. Case in point, Wat Toul Preah Reach Chea, to encourage goodness when it is done and seen. It is also the Buddhist way to enlighten a person if he is going the wrong way, for example wrong speech. It is also the Buddhist way to share with the celebration of others who achieved goodness in life. That means, no envy. It may not be my money entirely, but I am very happy to see that there are people who unite for a common cause, a leader who is capable of delivering it. A leader whose long sights breed hope in Khmer and humanity as a whole. 

I understand corruption is rampant in Cambodia, but can one be too muddled in mire to tell the difference between true and absolute corruption, a corruption that amounts to more suffering and poverty by a  leader who cares not whether the citizens live or die vs. the corruption that tells people to build for the benefit of the country, for the benefit of society as well as self as a whole? The idea of improving the country's standing (socially or economically) by building monuments and structures and providing shelter and other services for the needy is too much corruption for you, huh? You got to bark it down at the first whiff of air, huh?

No, MrJomNab. I am not a smart person like yourself. Like yourself I seek Truth, too. But unlike yourself, I'm not going to bark down anything without first experiencing it myself. In the grand scheme of things, I can be quite patient. I advise you to do likewise for it is, after all, a virtue.